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Thread: The 2016 US General Election

  1. #61
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    JAD,

    Trump's telling them what they want to hear, the way they want to hear it. Even if he doesn't make it through the primaries, he's put the GOP candidates on notice that 19% of the conservative electorate wants action on illegal immigration.
    lol, i bet if it looks like he might get locked out of the debates (let alone the primaries), he's gonna go independent. he's already threatening the RNC on this right now and there's no DISincentive for him to not toe the line.

    as pointed out earlier...he's not reliant on -them- for funding, after all.

    this is all an ego-game for the Donald.

    from my perspective this is great. of course the partisan perspective is obvious, but even from a strictly non-partisan standpoint, the entertainment value is enormous.

    ====

    http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/adm...dont-you-50895

    The latest polls are out, and just as I predicted, Iím leading the Republican presidential race by a wide margin. You might be wondering how that could be. After all, itís hardly been a month since I entered the field and Iíve already alienated Americaís largest immigrant population, seen dozens of my high-profile business deals implode one after the other, and publicly insulted a national heroís military service, all while not offering a single viable policy idea. But none of that matters at all, and my candidacy continues to surge forward, because none of youónot a single one of youócan look away. Not even for a second.

    Admit it: You people want to see just how far this goes, donít you?

    My campaignís just barely begun and Iíve already got you begging for more. Sure, you can say you oppose me or that you donít even take me seriously. But let me ask you: How many articles have you read about Ted Cruz lately? How many news segments have you watched on Bobby Jindal? Or Rand Paul? But if those stories have the name ďDonald TrumpĒ in them, well, look who suddenly canít get enough.

    The thing is, Iíve got all of you eating out of my hand and I havenít even released a single campaign commercial yet. Donít look me in the eye and tell me you donít want to stick around and see what that looks like, because you and I both know these ads are going to be absolutely incredible. Iíll be standing there projecting my best presidential air, saying ďIím Donald Trump, and I approve this message,Ē and you wonít be able to take your eyes off it.

    You keep obsessing over every little thing I do and say, and I promise youíll get your commercials real soon.

    I can tell youíre practically salivating right now. And Iím going to keep riding this fascination, this little fixation you have with me as far as youíll take me. You know I will.
    And the TV spots are just the beginning. I know you, and I know what you like. Youíll absolutely eat it up when you see the ďTrump í16Ē T-shirts, the lawn signs, the bumper stickers; in fact, youíll probably get a real kick out of pointing them out to your friends. Now, just imagine me shaking hands with senior citizens at a nursing home in Iowa. Wouldnít you love to watch that? Or hear what comes out of my mouth when I speak to blue-collar workers at a struggling auto factory?

    You say that doesnít interest you? Oh, right, because youíre dying to see how Scott Walker behaves in those situations, right? Give me a break.

    Just take a moment and imagine the primary debates: Jeb Bush; Chris Christie; me. Of course, theyíll put me in the middle because Iím ahead in the pollsófar ahead at the moment. You already know how I answer even the most basic inquiries, so just picture me staring down the barrel of a question about foreign affairs or agriculture policy or something like that. You think you wonít sit there with bated breath while I try to tackle a question about using military force, or about food stamps, or about how my faith influences my decision-making? I guarantee you that my answers will be worth watching. And we both know you wouldnít miss them for the world. Itíd be the biggest, most-watched primary debate in history, courtesy of all of you.

    And might I remind you that the longer this goes on, the closer I get to selecting a running mate. That realization kind of delighted you in a way, didnít it? You absolutely want to know who Iíd pick. A defeated GOP challenger who hates my guts? Another lunatic billionaire? Maybe my own son, Donald Trump Jr.? Whatever your wildest expectation is, I promise you I will surpass it. Youíre not going to pass up an opportunity to see that, are you?

    I can tell youíre practically salivating right now. And Iím going to keep riding this fascination, this little fixation you have with me as far as youíll take me. You know I will.

    So donít try to tell me youíd be just as happy to watch one of these other bozos go toe-to-toe with Hillary Clinton or give a soaring speech at the national convention. And donít delude yourself into thinking itís everyone else who wants to watch me do this and youíre somehow above it. You want to see it. You want more. You hear ďTrumpĒ and your attention snaps to the TV screen right away.

    Donít think itís true? Fine. You know what you have to do to make me go away. Just quit paying attention. Stop reading this right now.

    Thatís right, I didnít think so. I have the power to make the next 16 months one of the most incredible times in our nationís history, and not a single one of you can say youíre not at least a little bit curious to see how this wild ride shakes out. So just keep clicking every link that mentions my name and hitting play on every clip of my public appearances, and I promise you will not be disappointed.

    Now, excuse me, but I have to go appear at a New Hampshire town hall and make a statement that every last one of you will be eagerly reading about and discussing in just a few hoursí time.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #62
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    lol, i bet if it looks like he might get locked out of the debates (let alone the primaries), he's gonna go independent. he's already threatening the RNC on this right now and there's no DISincentive for him to not toe the line.

    as pointed out earlier...he's not reliant on -them- for funding, after all.

    this is all an ego-game for the Donald.

    from my perspective this is great. of course the partisan perspective is obvious, but even from a strictly non-partisan standpoint, the entertainment value is enormous.

    ====

    http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/adm...dont-you-50895

    The latest polls are out, and just as I predicted, I’m leading the Republican presidential race by a wide margin. You might be wondering how that could be. After all, it’s hardly been a month since I entered the field and I’ve already alienated America’s largest immigrant population, seen dozens of my high-profile business deals implode one after the other, and publicly insulted a national hero’s military service, all while not offering a single viable policy idea. But none of that matters at all, and my candidacy continues to surge forward, because none of you—not a single one of you—can look away. Not even for a second.

    Admit it: You people want to see just how far this goes, don’t you?

    My campaign’s just barely begun and I’ve already got you begging for more. Sure, you can say you oppose me or that you don’t even take me seriously. But let me ask you: How many articles have you read about Ted Cruz lately? How many news segments have you watched on Bobby Jindal? Or Rand Paul? But if those stories have the name “Donald Trump” in them, well, look who suddenly can’t get enough.

    The thing is, I’ve got all of you eating out of my hand and I haven’t even released a single campaign commercial yet. Don’t look me in the eye and tell me you don’t want to stick around and see what that looks like, because you and I both know these ads are going to be absolutely incredible. I’ll be standing there projecting my best presidential air, saying “I’m Donald Trump, and I approve this message,” and you won’t be able to take your eyes off it.

    You keep obsessing over every little thing I do and say, and I promise you’ll get your commercials real soon.

    I can tell you’re practically salivating right now. And I’m going to keep riding this fascination, this little fixation you have with me as far as you’ll take me. You know I will.
    And the TV spots are just the beginning. I know you, and I know what you like. You’ll absolutely eat it up when you see the “Trump ’16” T-shirts, the lawn signs, the bumper stickers; in fact, you’ll probably get a real kick out of pointing them out to your friends. Now, just imagine me shaking hands with senior citizens at a nursing home in Iowa. Wouldn’t you love to watch that? Or hear what comes out of my mouth when I speak to blue-collar workers at a struggling auto factory?

    You say that doesn’t interest you? Oh, right, because you’re dying to see how Scott Walker behaves in those situations, right? Give me a break.

    Just take a moment and imagine the primary debates: Jeb Bush; Chris Christie; me. Of course, they’ll put me in the middle because I’m ahead in the polls—far ahead at the moment. You already know how I answer even the most basic inquiries, so just picture me staring down the barrel of a question about foreign affairs or agriculture policy or something like that. You think you won’t sit there with bated breath while I try to tackle a question about using military force, or about food stamps, or about how my faith influences my decision-making? I guarantee you that my answers will be worth watching. And we both know you wouldn’t miss them for the world. It’d be the biggest, most-watched primary debate in history, courtesy of all of you.

    And might I remind you that the longer this goes on, the closer I get to selecting a running mate. That realization kind of delighted you in a way, didn’t it? You absolutely want to know who I’d pick. A defeated GOP challenger who hates my guts? Another lunatic billionaire? Maybe my own son, Donald Trump Jr.? Whatever your wildest expectation is, I promise you I will surpass it. You’re not going to pass up an opportunity to see that, are you?

    I can tell you’re practically salivating right now. And I’m going to keep riding this fascination, this little fixation you have with me as far as you’ll take me. You know I will.

    So don’t try to tell me you’d be just as happy to watch one of these other bozos go toe-to-toe with Hillary Clinton or give a soaring speech at the national convention. And don’t delude yourself into thinking it’s everyone else who wants to watch me do this and you’re somehow above it. You want to see it. You want more. You hear “Trump” and your attention snaps to the TV screen right away.

    Don’t think it’s true? Fine. You know what you have to do to make me go away. Just quit paying attention. Stop reading this right now.

    That’s right, I didn’t think so. I have the power to make the next 16 months one of the most incredible times in our nation’s history, and not a single one of you can say you’re not at least a little bit curious to see how this wild ride shakes out. So just keep clicking every link that mentions my name and hitting play on every clip of my public appearances, and I promise you will not be disappointed.

    Now, excuse me, but I have to go appear at a New Hampshire town hall and make a statement that every last one of you will be eagerly reading about and discussing in just a few hours’ time.
    asty:

    You might want to warn people that that article is a satirical piece from the Onion. But, you know, I can see him saying all that.

    My thought is he doesn't run as a 3rd party candidate. The fact that he's already bringing up the possibility tells me he's angling to get one of the frontrunners to 'buy' his support later on. He'll need to hold his 20% to get a good deal. Right now he's all bluff because none of the candidates want or need his support this early in the game. Who knows; he could be in single digits a few months from now.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  3. #63
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    JAD,

    You might want to warn people that that article is a satirical piece from the Onion.
    that's why I put the link up top...:-)

    The fact that he's already bringing up the possibility tells me he's angling to get one of the frontrunners to 'buy' his support later on. He'll need to hold his 20% to get a good deal. Right now he's all bluff because none of the candidates want or need his support this early in the game. Who knows; he could be in single digits a few months from now.
    you think so? I don't see Trump having any policy issues he actually cares about, other than the veneration of Donald Trump. I don't see him playing second or third fiddle, or even the moneybags/kingmaker for another candidate...that's just not him.

    remember this is the same guy who was for universal healthcare and was pro-choice fifteen years back.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    I can't believe there is someone actually worst than Obama vs Putin and that is Trump vs Putin.
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  5. #65
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    that's why I put the link up top...:-)
    Missed it.





    you think so? I don't see Trump having any policy issues he actually cares about, other than the veneration of Donald Trump. I don't see him playing second or third fiddle, or even the moneybags/kingmaker for another candidate...that's just not him.

    remember this is the same guy who was for universal healthcare and was pro-choice fifteen years back.

    He does think of himself as a wonderful fellow, although he admits of marital neglect. I think he is really riled up by the illegals thing, but it's hard to tell if he's on a crusade or just using it to get attention. Anyway, he knows how to pick a hot-button issue.

    When he was flitting around the birther issue a few years ago, he reminded me of a friend who forwards viral emails to me saying "LOOK AT THIS, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE, THE MEDIA MISSED THIS, ETC. And then it turns out the data is wrong, or the quote is false. That's how I see Trump--sort of a sucker for this kind of thing. But that's not to say we don't have a serious problem with illegal immigration. We do. It's just that it's really hard to deal with an issue that has been framed wrongly. That's my bitch with Trump.
    Last edited by JAD_333; 24 Jul 15, at 16:32.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  6. #66
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    When he was flitting around the birther issue a few years ago, he reminded me of a friend who forwards viral emails to me saying "LOOK AT THIS, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE, THE MEDIA MISSED THIS, ETC. And then it turns out the data is wrong, or the quote is false. That's how I see Trump--sort of a sucker for this kind of thing. But that's not to say we don't have a serious problem with illegal immigration. We do. It's just that it's really hard to deal with an issue that has been framed wrongly. That's my bitch with Trump.
    Your friend probably has people he respects who might be able to persuade him over time that his approach is flawed. The Donald knows he's always the most important guy in the room. Any room. Has been for decades. Throw in an occasional public crusade in which only the people who agree matter and a ton of money & you have a spectacular train wreck.


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  7. #67
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Your friend probably has people he respects who might be able to persuade him over time that his approach is flawed. The Donald knows he's always the most important guy in the room. Any room. Has been for decades. Throw in an occasional public crusade in which only the people who agree matter and a ton of money & you have a spectacular train wreck.
    lol...My friend has learned to fact check.

    I don't dispute what you say about Trump. He thinks highly of himself. But he is also a can-do guy, and not without justification. I recall an incident when I was living in NYC during the 1960s. The city was building an ice rink in Central Park. The project had ground on for years, stalled by squabbles with contractors, suppliers, and unions. Trump, then a brash, young upcoming developer, not well known outside NY, offered to solve all the problems, and guaranteed the rink would be finished in a few months. He kept his word. It was an example of his deal making genius. So, he's not just a clown who got rich on his father's company. Who wouldn't want a president with that ability? But Trump' problem is he's too one dimensional. A president has to be more than a problem solver. He has to be a uniter, not a divider, IMHO.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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    JAD,

    Trump, then a brash, young upcoming developer, not well known outside NY, offered to solve all the problems, and guaranteed the rink would be finished in a few months. He kept his word.
    that was a long time ago. these days, a lot of his ventures tend to go bankrupt, or trade heavily on the Trump name. in fact, I think his daughter Ivanka is a considerably better salesperson than the old man, which is why her name figures so prominently in some of the newer prestige projects (like the remaking of the old postal office in DC into a luxury hotel).

    I have more respect for someone like Richard Branson than him.

    in any case, he likes hot-button issues but again this seems to be more as a sales tactic rather than any deeply held belief. hell, immigration (both legal and otherwise) from mexico has been down significantly this past decade, a 60% reduction IIRC.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    that was a long time ago. these days, a lot of his ventures tend to go bankrupt, or trade heavily on the Trump name. in fact, I think his daughter Ivanka is a considerably better salesperson than the old man, which is why her name figures so prominently in some of the newer prestige projects (like the remaking of the old postal office in DC into a luxury hotel).

    I have more respect for someone like Richard Branson than him.

    in any case, he likes hot-button issues but again this seems to be more as a sales tactic rather than any deeply held belief. hell, immigration (both legal and otherwise) from mexico has been down significantly this past decade, a 60% reduction IIRC.
    He's a clown, pure and simple. A buffoonish clown. And he'll likely be a large factor in the GOP losing in '16.

    That Onion satire was more truth than satire.
    ďYou donít even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your roleÖ because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.Ē
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  10. #70
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    TH,

    He's a clown, pure and simple. A buffoonish clown
    that he is.

    but what should be more worrisome to any thinking Republican is why/how it is that a buffoonish clown can get the support of such a large number of conservatives instead of being laughed off the stage...
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    lol...My friend has learned to fact check.

    I don't dispute what you say about Trump. He thinks highly of himself. But he is also a can-do guy, and not without justification. I recall an incident when I was living in NYC during the 1960s. The city was building an ice rink in Central Park. The project had ground on for years, stalled by squabbles with contractors, suppliers, and unions. Trump, then a brash, young upcoming developer, not well known outside NY, offered to solve all the problems, and guaranteed the rink would be finished in a few months. He kept his word. It was an example of his deal making genius. So, he's not just a clown who got rich on his father's company. Who wouldn't want a president with that ability? But Trump' problem is he's too one dimensional. A president has to be more than a problem solver. He has to be a uniter, not a divider, IMHO.
    Asty beat me to it - that was when he was a young up & comer, not a human brand name. He's a smart guy & has had some success in business, but he also has a record of being incredibly destructive to achieve his personal aims. That might work as a CEO, but its incredibly bad as a political leader in a democracy.

    There is a theory I once saw put forward that capitalism benefits democracy because it gives people with dictatorial personalities an obvious route to power & success outside government. Not a perfect theory, but it has some merit. Trump is a dictator and he's playing politics like one. Fortunately the system will ultimately discourage him from continuing. Anyone who tells you this is some 'failure' because 'outsiders' can't break in really needs to reassess their understanding of things.


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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    TH,



    that he is.

    but what should be more worrisome to any thinking Republican is why/how it is that a buffoonish clown can get the support of such a large number of conservatives instead of being laughed off the stage...
    Obama ain't better,yet he managed 8 years.
    That people support such characters is because of frustration.And they are frustrated because whatever establishment there is offers them nothing of value.And leaves the impression they don't give a damn.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Best thing ever written on the Hairpiece Support System known as The Donald.

  14. #74
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    That people support such characters is because of frustration.And they are frustrated because whatever establishment there is offers them nothing of value.And leaves the impression they don't give a damn.
    Exactly. You nailed it.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  15. #75
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Asty beat me to it - that was when he was a young up & comer, not a human brand name. He's a smart guy & has had some success in business, but he also has a record of being incredibly destructive to achieve his personal aims. That might work as a CEO, but its incredibly bad as a political leader in a democracy.

    There is a theory I once saw put forward that capitalism benefits democracy because it gives people with dictatorial personalities an obvious route to power & success outside government. Not a perfect theory, but it has some merit. Trump is a dictator and he's playing politics like one. Fortunately the system will ultimately discourage him from continuing. Anyone who tells you this is some 'failure' because 'outsiders' can't break in really needs to reassess their understanding of things.
    To you and Asty I would say, the fact that a lot of time has passed since someone achieved a success doesn't mean they cannot again. We all agree that Trump is a colorful, clownish fellow with a hair trigger mouth. But he's able enough to sniff the winds and pick up on the dissatisfaction of a large segment of voters and play on their dissatisfaction to gain traction in a field of 16 candidates.

    But do Republicans as a whole like Trump? The most recent polls say no. That tells me that while Trump has revealed the anger existing over illegals, he won't be nominated to carry the banner forward.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/184337/am...own-liked.aspx
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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