Page 190 of 311 FirstFirst ... 181182183184185186187188189190191192193194195196197198199 ... LastLast
Results 2,836 to 2,850 of 4662

Thread: The 2016 US General Election

  1. #2836
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Nov 09
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Putin's leadership vs Obama's is best elucidated in this article:

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/secre...earn-red-akrim

    Clearly the Russian economy is currently in trouble. I'm not praising the consequences of Putin's actions, far from it.
    But Putin, through fair means and foul (mostly foul and even despicable), has led.
    His goals and the methods to achieve them are not laudable and they've had serious consequences. But he has led.

    Obama has done anything but. He has dithered and divided. As I said, even his staunchest supports have been left sorely disappointed and disillusioned. Quite the remarkable come-down from 2008, when anything seemed possible and people were literally swooning in the streets.

    That, more than anything, is my point.

    You present a tough choice.

    Either a leader who doesn't lead much, or a leader who takes you down a deep rabbit hole.

  2. #2837
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    17,081
    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    You present a tough choice.

    Either a leader who doesn't lead much, or a leader who takes you down a deep rabbit hole.
    I prefer the third choice: A leader that does't take us down a deep rabbit hole.

    I had a whole response nicely typed out with links and everything and like an idiot I closed the tab.

    Here's the summary: Barack Obama came into office thinking he could dictate terms to the GOP and to the nation.

    Surprise surprise, people don't like being dictated to. Especially not Americans.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  3. #2838
    Administrator
    Lei Feng Protege
    Defense Professional
    Join Date
    23 Aug 05
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    14,016
    joe,

    Putin's leadership vs Obama's is best elucidated in this article:

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/secre...earn-red-akrim

    Clearly the Russian economy is currently in trouble. I'm not praising the consequences of Putin's actions, far from it.
    But Putin, through fair means and foul (mostly foul and even despicable), has led.
    His goals and the methods to achieve them are not laudable and they've had serious consequences. But he has led.

    Obama has done anything but. He has dithered and divided. As I said, even his staunchest supports have been left sorely disappointed and disillusioned. Quite the remarkable come-down from 2008, when anything seemed possible and people were literally swooning in the streets.

    That, more than anything, is my point.
    "action" without result is meaningless. in fact, Putin's actions have been detrimental to Russian strength and influence. can anyone state that Russian strength and influence today is greater than that of eight years ago?

    so if that's leadership, heavens preserve us from it!
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #2839
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    "action" without result is meaningless. in fact, Putin's actions have been detrimental to Russian strength and influence. can anyone state that Russian strength and influence today is greater than that of eight years ago?

    so if that's leadership, heavens preserve us from it!
    I'll take that up. NATO expansion is stopped cold. Both Georgia and the Ukraines will not get NATO membership if only because it would be military suicide to do so. Both Georgia and the Ukraines might be gearing to the West but they will have to satisfy Russia's security concerns.

    Israeli air power is effectively neutralized and Assad's survival is no longer under threat.
    Chimo

  5. #2840
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    17,081
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    joe,
    "action" without result is meaningless. in fact, Putin's actions have been detrimental to Russian strength and influence. can anyone state that Russian strength and influence today is greater than that of eight years ago?

    so if that's leadership, heavens preserve us from it!
    I daresay that Russian strength and influence has taken a massive shove upwards in the past 8 years.

    Besides what the Colonel said, I see Western Europe startled and Eastern Europe frightened, like they haven't been since 1991.

    I see the U.S. sending troops and equipment into what should've been the backwater of military concerns.

    I see a resurgent Russia. And a cowed United States.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  6. #2841
    Administrator
    Lei Feng Protege
    Defense Professional
    Join Date
    23 Aug 05
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    14,016
    I'll take that up. NATO expansion is stopped cold. Both Georgia and the Ukraines will not get NATO membership if only because it would be military suicide to do so. Both Georgia and the Ukraines might be gearing to the West but they will have to satisfy Russia's security concerns.
    NATO expansion was already at its limits in 2008 anyway. Ukraine wasn't even on the table in 2008 for that matter, Georgia's drive was stopped by Germany and France prior to the war.

    the 2014 revolution turned Ukraine from a puppet of Putin and a Russian arms factory to Ukrainians literally shooting and killing Russians. for that matter, same thing with Georgia-- it was a Russian puppet as late as 2003 prior to the Rose Revolution. given their respective location on the globe, of course they always have had cause to be worried about the Russians; now a good portion of their populace actively hates the Russians.

    IE, there's not going to be a return to puppet status. so much for eastern european hegemony, the cornerstone of Putin's strategy.

    Israeli air power is effectively neutralized and Assad's survival is no longer under threat.
    i dare say Israel would disagree with the first and as for the second, the US was never serious about taking him out anyways. Assad is simply not a major US concern.

    in short, "resurgent" Russia is significantly weaker economically (by 20%!) than she was in 2008, has weaker control of her periphery than in 2008, has far more hostile neighbors than she did in 2008, and has a hard US military presence in her backyard. her Ukraine adventure has proved to be a strategic disaster.

    Putin's goal for over the last decade was to exert hegemony over eastern europe, weaken NATO resolve, and get the US out of europe. none of that's happened. that's not even treading water, that's a collapse in strategy.
    Last edited by astralis; 12 Sep 16, at 02:09.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  7. #2842
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    NATO expansion was already at its limits in 2008 anyway. Ukraine wasn't even on the table in 2008 for that matter, Georgia's drive was stopped by Germany and France prior to the war.
    And yet, the US got the Ukraines and the Georgia to commit to reforms to NATO standards. From everybody's POV, that was a backdoor attempt to get the Ukraines and Georgia in. Even the Ukrainians knew what the US was trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i dare say Israel would disagree with the first
    Israel is not going to attack Russian SAM sites which means they won't be flying over them any time soon. Effectively neutralized.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    and as for the second, the US was never serious about taking him out anyways. Assad is simply not a major US concern.
    Obama screamed, "CHARGE!" Putin screamed, "STOP!" You're going to tell me that Obama didn't lose credibility and Putin didn't gain any?
    Chimo

  8. #2843
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Aug 03
    Posts
    8,108
    .....

    . un Sep 11, 2016 | 8:32 PM EDT
    Diagnosed with pneumonia, Clinton falls ill at 9/11 memorial


    0:00



    2h ago | 01:16
    Battling pneumonia, Clinton falls ill at 9/11 ceremony
    X
    By Amanda Becker | NEW YORK
    Hillary Clinton's personal doctor on Sunday said the Democratic presidential candidate was suffering from pneumonia after she fell ill at a Sept. 11 memorial, in an episode that renewed focus on her health less than two months before the general election.

    Clinton was diagnosed on Friday, but her condition only came to light several hours after a video on social media appeared to show her swaying and her knees buckling before she is helped into a motorcade as she left the memorial early Sunday.

    Clinton had a medical examination when she got back to her home in Chappaqua, New York, according to a campaign aide. Her doctor, Lisa Bardack, said in a statement that she has been experiencing a cough related to allergies and that an examination on Friday showed it was pneumonia.

    "She was put on antibiotics and advised to rest and modify her schedule. While at this morning's event, she became overheated and dehydrated. I have just examined her and she is now re-hydrated and recovering nicely," Bardack said.

    It was not yet clear whether Clinton would stick to a hectic schedule that has her travelling to California on Monday for several campaign and fundraising events.

    Regardless of how much the illness curtails the 68-year-old's campaigning, the diagnosis comes at a crucial time in the White House race against Republican rival Donald Trump. The first of three debates is on Sept. 26 and the election is on Nov. 8.

    Some Clinton allies said the incident underscored the candidate's resilience.

    "After being diagnosed with pneumonia, Hillary Clinton ran a two-hour national security meeting, gave a press conference, and spent an hour and a half in the heat at a September 11 event," said Peter Daou, who worked for Clinton in the past and now has a communications firm.

    "It was an impressive feat of physical strength that undermined weeks of health conspiracies."

    'LESS SPECULATION'

    Clinton abruptly departed the high-profile, televised event at Ground Zero and was taken to her daughter Chelsea's home in Manhattan. She emerged around two hours later on a warm and muggy morning, wearing sunglasses and telling reporters that she was "feeling great."

    The video that showed her swaying and buckling with aides holding her up came from an unverified Twitter account under the name Zdenek Gazda, who did not respond to a request for comment. The Clinton campaign did not respond to repeated requests for comment about the authenticity of the video.

    Political strategists said the campaign should confront the health issue head-on to tamp down any concerns, particularly as Republican rival Donald Trump and some of his high-profile supporters have repeatedly argued that she lacked the "stamina" to battle adversaries abroad.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    For Bud Jackson, a Virginia-based Democratic strategist, the statement from the doctor was a good start.

    “I think they did the right thing. They had her examined and put out a statement. It means less speculation,” Jackson said.

    Jackson said Sunday's incident will be “instructive” for the campaign and should encourage more transparency from the Clinton camp about her health. It is in their best interest to disclose anything in the future, he said, rather than have it leaked or exposed via another episode like Sunday's.

    As the solemn ceremony began at the site of the World Trade Center that was attacked by two hijacked airliners 15 years ago, there was patchy sunlight, with temperatures at about 80 degrees Fahrenheit (26.6 Celsius). But the high humidity early into the ceremony caused it to feel much hotter in the crowd at times.

    Clinton wore a high-collared shirt and a dark pant suit and donned sunglasses for the morning event. Democratic Representative Joe Crowley of New York, a Clinton supporter who attended the event, told Reuters that it was "incredibly, stiflingly hot" during the ceremony.

    Clinton's pneumonia diagnosis follows a wave of conservative conspiracy theories that circulated in recent weeks suggesting that Clinton's coughing was a sign of deeper problems
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  9. #2844
    Administrator
    Lei Feng Protege
    Defense Professional
    Join Date
    23 Aug 05
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    14,016
    col,

    think you're losing sight of the big picture for the trees.

    And yet, the US got the Ukraines and the Georgia to commit to reforms to NATO standards. From everybody's POV, that was a backdoor attempt to get the Ukraines and Georgia in. Even the Ukrainians knew what the US was trying.
    BTW, these efforts are still continuing to this day. they are further changing orientation to the West. that's -still- a huge change from being Putin puppets.

    Obama screamed, "CHARGE!" Putin screamed, "STOP!" You're going to tell me that Obama didn't lose credibility and Putin didn't gain any?
    actually it was Obama who changed his mind at the last second and decided not to burn Assad.

    -regardless-, how is today a strategic improvement for the Russians in that regard? OK...they kept one of their puppets alive...a puppet located in the Middle East and thus has no bearing on Russian desires to exert hegemony on her borders. again, treading water.

    still don't see any major victory that countervails a 20% collapse in the economy and the loss of her next door puppets. where is this strategic genius?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  10. #2845
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    col,

    think you're losing sight of the big picture for the trees.
    I see the big picture you don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    BTW, these efforts are still continuing to this day. they are further changing orientation to the West. that's -still- a huge change from being Putin puppets.
    Without NATO membership, both the Ukraines and Georgia MUST adhere to Russian security concerns, translation: beg Russia not to attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    actually it was Obama who changed his mind at the last second and decided not to burn Assad.
    We're talking influence. Obama lost big and Putin won big. Do note the world views Putin as the one who saved Obama's ass from himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    -regardless-, how is today a strategic improvement for the Russians in that regard? OK...they kept one of their puppets alive...a puppet located in the Middle East and thus has no bearing on Russian desires to exert hegemony on her borders. again, treading water.

    still don't see any major victory that countervails a 20% collapse in the economy and the loss of her next door puppets. where is this strategic genius?
    That collapse was coming regardless. Putin could have done nothing about the drop in prices. So, the question is suffer the loss with zero gains and hope the US gives you scraps for good behaviour OR suffer the loss and dictate from a position of strength.
    Chimo

  11. #2846
    Administrator
    Lei Feng Protege
    Defense Professional
    Join Date
    23 Aug 05
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    14,016
    col,

    Without NATO membership, both the Ukraines and Georgia MUST adhere to Russian security concerns, translation: beg Russia not to attack.
    at best, they are neutral, but western-oriented neutral. again, loss of Russian influence and strength over puppetry.

    We're talking influence. Obama lost big and Putin won big. Do note the world views Putin as the one who saved Obama's ass from himself.
    don't see it. none of this, for instance, is persuading Putin's neighbors to essentially kowtow to Putin. if there was a loss of trust in the US role as an ally, then Eastern Europe wouldn't be begging for more Dragoon Rides from the US.

    Putin could have done nothing about the drop in prices. So, the question is suffer the loss with zero gains and hope the US gives you scraps for good behaviour OR suffer the loss and dictate from a position of strength.
    sure he could have. diversify his economy. integrate more closely with the international market. not bring on heavy sanctions. as it is, he's begging the Chinese will give him scraps for good behavior instead of the US, and this is better for Russia how?

    Putin is -reacting-, IE all of his strategy so far has been to at best ameliorate the enormous collapse of Russian influence and power in his periphery. and he's not particularly playing a good hand, either. where is he dictating to anyone, other than the "independent" Donetsk and Luhansk Republics?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #2847
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    at best, they are neutral, but western-oriented neutral. again, loss of Russian influence and strength over puppetry.
    Like I believe that will last. 1997, both Georgia and the Ukraines sided with Russia and gave the go for Russian paratroopers to fly through their airspace ... with popular support. Again, without NATO membership, both the Ukraines and Georgia will have to address all of Moscow's security concerns. For example, no one in the Ukraines nor Georgia is supporting their "NATO" ally Turkey against Moscow.

    Come to think of it, both the Ukraines and Georgia are still under the Russian nuclear umbrella.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    don't see it. none of this, for instance, is persuading Putin's neighbors to essentially kowtow to Putin.
    Putin also stopped them from kissing Obama's ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    if there was a loss of trust in the US role as an ally, then Eastern Europe wouldn't be begging for more Dragoon Rides from the US.
    Who else are they going to beg? France and Germany?

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    sure he could have. diversify his economy. integrate more closely with the international market.
    How was that going to stop the drop in oil prices?

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    not bring on heavy sanctions.
    The Ukraines and Georgia in NATO through the backdoor ... and please don't deny that was EXACTLY what the US was trying to do. With that in mind, sanctions were better, at least from Putin's perspective. Hell, even the Ukraines was actively seeking NATO membership.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    as it is, he's begging the Chinese will give him scraps for good behavior instead of the US, and this is better for Russia how?
    The Chinese need him more.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    Putin is -reacting-, IE all of his strategy so far has been to at best ameliorate the enormous collapse of Russian influence and power in his periphery. and he's not particularly playing a good hand, either. where is he dictating to anyone, other than the "independent" Donetsk and Luhansk Republics?
    Israel for one. Stay the hell out of Russia's sphere of influence.
    Chimo

  13. #2848
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    17,081
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    if there was a loss of trust in the US role as an ally, then Eastern Europe wouldn't be begging for more Dragoon Rides from the US.
    Why are there Dragoon Rides in the first place? Weren't we pivoting toward the Pacific?
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  14. #2849
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    13 Nov 07
    Posts
    3,848
    Well, this seems to be the moment in the election when the Clinton health story gains traction.

    I wonder if this will detract or add to her support.

    On the one hand, we want a healthy president. On the other hand, the idea that she might croak soon after the election might make her ticket more palatable to many, yours truly included. After all Tim Kaine has a pretty good reputation.

  15. #2850
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Aug 08
    Location
    UK/Europe
    Posts
    5,475
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    And yet, the US got the Ukraines and the Georgia to commit to reforms to NATO standards. From everybody's POV, that was a backdoor attempt to get the Ukraines and Georgia in. Even the Ukrainians knew what the US was trying.
    Georgian and Ukrainian membership of NATO was ruled out short term at the Bucharest NATO 'summit' in 2008 by the younger Bush in return for Muscovite permission and cooperation in the 'war on terror' which was rightly regarded at the time as higher priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    Putin's goal for over the last decade was to exert hegemony over eastern europe, weaken NATO resolve, and get the US out of europe. none of that's happened. that's not even treading water, that's a collapse in strategy.
    I agree by and large by the question is how much of this is due to Obama rather than Muscovite mistakes and the answer would arguably be none of it.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Space station to be de-orbited by 2016
    By diablo49 in forum Science & Technology
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 25 Jul 09,, 00:38
  2. Indian General Election April 16th-May 13th 2009,
    By Kevin Brown in forum International Politics
    Replies: 172
    Last Post: 23 May 09,, 20:09
  3. If the BJP wins in the Indian General Election
    By Kevin Brown in forum International Politics
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 23 Apr 09,, 09:54
  4. British General Election 2007?
    By Silent Hunter in forum International Politics
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 28 Sep 07,, 12:41
  5. General Election Results in Turkey
    By Ucar in forum International Politics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 24 Jul 07,, 08:28

Tags for this Thread

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •