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Thread: National Concealed Carry Reciprocity

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Sounds like we are actually on the same page. I am all for treating guns like cars. Get some basic training/education, take a standard test to demonstrate that you understand how to operate the equipment safely and you get your certification.

    I agree that walking across a state line is a rather arbitrary reason to get in trouble with the law, but I can also see how a largely urban state might view guns differently than a mostly rural state (like mine). Getting states to give up the right to make their own gun regulations in favor of the feds setting a nation wide standard is going to be a tough sell even if it makes life easier for a lot of people.

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuna View Post
    Because felons and criminals obey the law right? and places that have the strictest requirements also tend to have the most amount of crime.
    Are you arguing that places with the most crime impose the strictest laws, to cope with that crime rate?
    Or, are you arguing that places with the strictest laws have the highest crime rates, because the laws are so strict?

    I've spent most of my life in places with laws so strict they will jail you a year for every bullet in your possession, regardless of whether you have a gun. The crime rate is also extremely low.

    Go figure.

  3. #18
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Are you arguing that places with the most crime impose the strictest laws, to cope with that crime rate?
    Or, are you arguing that places with the strictest laws have the highest crime rates, because the laws are so strict?

    I've spent most of my life in places with laws so strict they will jail you a year for every bullet in your possession, regardless of whether you have a gun. The crime rate is also extremely low.

    Go figure.
    Are you talking about "gun crimes," over all crime rate, or violent crime rate?

    How do you explain the crime rate in relation to Prohibition?

    Sometimes things are just counter-intuitive. Printing money should lead to high inflation, right?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  4. #19
    Military Professional dundonrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    Sounds like we are actually on the same page. I am all for treating guns like cars. Get some basic training/education, take a standard test to demonstrate that you understand how to operate the equipment safely and you get your certification.

    I agree that walking across a state line is a rather arbitrary reason to get in trouble with the law, but I can also see how a largely urban state might view guns differently than a mostly rural state (like mine). Getting states to give up the right to make their own gun regulations in favor of the feds setting a nation wide standard is going to be a tough sell even if it makes life easier for a lot of people.
    it's not that the federal government will regulate it, they will just make the states recognize another state's license, the same way that each state recognizes another states drivers license now.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Are you talking about "gun crimes," over all crime rate, or violent crime rate?

    How do you explain the crime rate in relation to Prohibition?

    Sometimes things are just counter-intuitive. Printing money should lead to high inflation, right?
    Overall violent crime. Your areas with high violent crime tend to be areas where it is difficult to legally carry firearm.

    Based on the fact that gun ownership is going up, and guns keep being produced so there are more available, I think the link of crime and guns is flawed. More guns, and more access to guns does not equal "blood in the streets" and shootouts at every fender bender.
    "Bother", said Poo, chambering another round.

  6. #21
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuna View Post
    Overall violent crime. Your areas with high violent crime tend to be areas where it is difficult to legally carry firearm.

    Based on the fact that gun ownership is going up, and guns keep being produced so there are more available, I think the link of crime and guns is flawed. More guns, and more access to guns does not equal "blood in the streets" and shootouts at every fender bender.
    Actually I don't believe one causes the other. Banning guns does not cause an increase in crime rate, per se.

    What is actually happening is crime rate is already on the rise, for whatever the reason. It could be lack of opportunity, lack of police, racial tension, gangs fighting over turf to sell drugs...whatever. The good-for-nothing lying sacks of shit we call "politicians" want to appear to be tough on crime. They go after the bogeyman called "guns." Let's ban guns and crimes will go down. We ran through a similar exercise called "Prohibition" early in the 20th century. People were so stupid that they believed alcohol was the root of all crimes. Now, people are so stupid that they believe guns are the root of all crimes.

    No, criminals are the root of all crimes. It's in the name, "crim"inal. Taking one tool away from criminals will only force them to use something else. Humans are ever so resourceful to come up with alternatives to do the same thing. Raise income tax on the rich? They'll switch to stock dividends. Raise capital gains tax to get the rich? They'll park their money in tax free bonds.

    Banning guns won't cause crimes to rise. But everything else those shitty politicians do will.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    gunnut,

    Overall crime rate.

    Prohibition? First, it is really stupid to ban something that people really, really want. Second, I don’t recall there being strict gun control laws in the 1920s-30s.

    = = = = =

    tuna,

    As I said, I have spent my entire adult life in places with extremely strict gun control laws, and very low crime rates.

  8. #23
    Military Professional dundonrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    As long as they all met a minimum criteria it shouldn't be an issue.
    minimum criteria.. the 2nd amendment.

  9. #24
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundonrl View Post
    minimum criteria.. the 2nd amendment.
    Thats a scary concept. There are idioits out there that have no business within 100ft of a gun.

    Its where the "No restrictions on the 2d Amendment" folks lose me.

    We have rules and restrictions on our other rights. What makes the 2d Amendment so special?
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Sorry, not your call GG. Inalienable right, get over it.

  11. #26
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Sorry, not your call GG. Inalienable right, get over it.
    Don't remember seeing "Right to bear arms" in the Declaration of Independence. Did see Life liberty and the pursuit of Happiness mentioned though. Never saw "right to own a gun" in the Bible either

    So you think crazy people should be able to be armed at your house?

    I own guns, I shoot guns but the idea that gun ownership should be a free for all with no restrictions is crazy.

    Especially the conceal carry on demand movement. Its a deadly weapon. There needs to be some training before you walk around in public with it. Kind of like a car. And yes I know driving is a privileged not a "Constitutionally protected right", You wouldn't dream of giving a 18yr old, that has never been in a car, a set of keys and telling him/her to take off.

    And the open carry everywhere. "I demand the right to walk around with a loaded gun in Burger king" group. You would think this was some 3d world shithole we live in. Where gunfights break out all around.And we need to arm ourselves to be safe. And ready. Like these fine gentlemen

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    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Sorry, certain people have to check in their rights at the door, such as members of the military. The "common" citizen does not. If they misbehave, they go to jail. If they do not, like it or not they have their inalienable, non government issued rights.

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Sorry, not your call GG. Inalienable right, get over it.
    Inalienable but subject to reasonable limitations.

    Courtesy of Scalia in 2008 Johnson v. United States.

    Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152-153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489-490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students' Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.
    http://volokh.com/posts/1215491766.shtml
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 28 Mar 16, at 17:50.

  14. #29
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    And the open carry everywhere. "I demand the right to walk around with a loaded gun in Burger king" group. You would think this was some 3d world shithole we live in. Where gunfights break out all around.And we need to arm ourselves to be safe. And ready. Like these fine gentlemen
    I dare them to say he hasn't had all he can eat.

    I am in favor of greater protections for gun rights, but yeah there comes a point where people are admitting to be a pansy or just plain look like a jackass.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  15. #30
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    Burger King is private property. Property rights always trump gun rights ... and gay rights.
    Chimo

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