Alabama Cops ATTACKED and PARALYZED Indian Grandfather by using excessive force

[cirrrocco]

This indeed was Police excess. And I'm glad the idiot cop was suspended. He needs to spend his life behind bars. What the hell was he thinking in the age of FB & Twitter? Fool.

I've read a lot in here about Police brutality in US, however, one question for US members, are Police really that brutal in US? What do you guys think? Where is Z :)

Joe,

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Mind blown, and how blatant the liars are wearing blue. There should be double the punishment, for people supposed to 'protect and serve'. They just protect and serve their own kind.

[astralis]

YF,

Statistics please.

Because everything I read from the DOJ and the NAACP suggests that North Eastern and South West police depts. are the biggest offenders.

my earlier remark was simply because the recent spate of police misconduct seem to be in the South.

i have to say i'm a bit surprised you went to...Mother Jones...for the map there ;) if there's somewhere more left than HuffPo, you found the place!

that map is problematic, because it relies on places where there were DOJ investigations. plenty of places where it never rose to that level, or gained media attention. yet that's the only one the author of that Mother Jones piece used, because there is very little in the way of statistics for police brutality. there's no national reporting requirement, and many states hide their data, or collect different types of data.

so we're left with these one-off incidents, which are telling in their own way, as was, for instance, the police response to the ferguson protests.

do you really think that if it was, say, oh a german grandfather taking a walk...that he would be reported as "suspicious"? or, when the police came up to him, would start ordering him about in English even after knowing he couldn't speak? and then knock him down so hard to paralyze the man, and wonder why he wouldn't listen?

and this was close to huntsville, where there IS a pretty diverse community by Southern standards, courtesy of NASA.

[zraver]

This indeed was Police excess. And I'm glad the idiot cop was suspended. He needs to spend his life behind bars. What the hell was he thinking in the age of FB & Twitter? Fool.

That he has powerful protections that sheild him from the laws he enforces and a near cart blanche to do as he will.

I've read a lot in here about Police brutality in US, however, one question for US members, are Police really that brutal in US? What do you guys think? Where is Z :)

Joe,

Yes, US cops are that brutal. If you look at use of force percentages for the tiny percentage of US cops who have college degrees and compare them to the generally GED/HS diploma majority of beat cops you see a hugely different approach to policing. Its funny, teachers in the US generally need a 4 year degree and do not hold the power of life and death. Cops make the same or more than teachers and have guns but don't require any special education other than a brief stint at an academy. Through the early part of Febuary 2015, over 100 citizens had been killed including several unarmed cases reminiscent of the big cases of 2014. 0 Cops were shot by citizens, though a couple were shot be other cops. I think the first cop killed by a citizen this year was killed by his lady love who killed him and then called 9-11 to report the shooting stating, "he was getting ready to hit me again".

The US has more laws than any nation on Earth and incarcerates more of its own citizens than anyone. If we judge freedom by the number of laws and the number of prisoners, the US cannot claim to be "The Land Of The Free".

I really feel bad for this Indian grandfather who has discovered that Land of the Free and Home of the brave has become the land of the oppressed and the home of the enforcer. Its gotten so bad in many parts of the country even "white" people are getting nervous.

[gunnut]

Fullerton, CA, will be the first city in Orange County to have every single cop wear a body camera to record interactions between police and public. This should reduce needless violence and provide more confidence in the police from the public.

[Bigfella]

If Martin Luthar King was alive he might have put his head in shame to see RACISM still prevalent and his efforts gone in gutter.

Its spelled 'Luthor'. Have you never read Batman?

[Mohan]

Its spelled 'Luthor'. Have you never read Batman?

I think it's spelled as "Luther". You should have read it.

Martin Luther King, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

[kuku]

I think it's spelled as "Luther". You should have read it.

That was funny....

Bigfella, you racist, every black guy you see you associate with Luthor eh!


USA has to improve its piss poor policing record, (to all who will say back to me what about India, India has real funding and training issues), as a nation made out of money, USA should have no such excuse, this is just ignorance, bigotry.

I feel sad for all my fellow countrymen who have to work in USA, the money is good but then its not quite Ghandinagar, is it?
Just like i feel sad for my relatives who live in Delhi and are called Chinki on a daily basis....

This world needs people to loose their ignorance.

[Officer of Engineers]

Its spelled 'Luthor'. Have you never read Batman?

You dumb ass. Luthor is Superman's kissing buddy. The Joker is Batman's.

[Bigfella]

You dumb ass. Luthor is Superman's kissing buddy. The Joker is Batman's.

Apologies sir. Nice to see one of us is on the ball. I think I was being too subtle, even for myself.

[Bigfella]

That was funny....

Bigfella, you racist, every black guy you see you associate with Luthor eh!
[ATTACH]39198[/ATTACH]

When did Lex go blackface? Damn. Missed a memo.

USA has to improve its piss poor policing record, (to all who will say back to me what about India, India has real funding and training issues), as a nation made out of money, USA should have no such excuse, this is just ignorance, bigotry.

I feel sad for all my fellow countrymen who have to work in USA, the money is good but then its not quite Ghandinagar, is it?
Just like i feel sad for my relatives who live in Delhi and are called Chinki on a daily basis....

This world needs people to loose their ignorance.

Agree about the US. There are clearly some serious problems there. I would never hold up Australian police forces as some model of good behaviour, but the preparedness of US police to resort to force, often lethal, is truly disturbing.

[Bigfella]

I think it's spelled as "Luther". You should have read it.

Martin Luther King, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

You are correct, of course. :)

MLK is one of my favourite people. I read & watched heavily about the Civil Rights movement from my late teens to my mid-20s. Whatever his personal flaws, King was a towering leader & perhaps the finest orator I have ever heard. His speeches can still bring me to tears. I consider it one of the privileges of my life that I got to visit the site of his death with two former WABbers some years ago. On that same trip I got to visit the new MLK memorial in DC and stand on the exact spot on the Lincoln memorial where he made his 'I have a dream' speech'. Fair to say it gave me shivers.

Fair to say Batista dramatically undermined any force his points might have had by misspelling King's name.

[Monash]

Still, US law enforcement - at least at the Country/City level seems to have a real public image problem on their hands. As I've said before there appears, in some jurisdictions at least to be a growing disconnect between LEA and the communities they serve. One assumes many local heads of department would be concerned enough to be contemplating community engagement and trust building programs of some form or another. There may also be training and recruitment issues at play as well though you would have to look closely at such things on a statewide basis to be sure. It would also help if both the Forces and Unions concerned didn't come out 'swinging' with automatic public statements in support of officers after shooting incidents etc before the incident investigation is finished. Full support for the member concerned in the background of course, but no public statements until the facts are known. (That's how it's done here at least.)

All of the above is only an impression I'm getting from afar by the way. It is certainly not intended as a criticism of the US law enforcement per se. Constant engagement with the community, impartial and open investigations with 'lessons learned' reviews afterwards for the troops as well as good leadership that won't tolerate a 'them and us' attitude to community policing would be a big plus at this point in time - for some local departments at least.

[Albany Rifles]

I am intrigued by how international posters who are making judgements on the LEA in the US based on...what?

Do you know or have you lived here?

Or is it all what you read and see in the media?

There are over 18,000 police agencies in the US split between federal, state and local with approxiamtely 450,000 sworn officers.

Over half of those officers serve in small rural departments with 12 officers or less.

There are no rigid set of standards for police officers nationwide....and I doubt we Americans would ever agree to a national police force. So the are are a myriad of convaluted issues which stand in the way of a single force.

And unlike many companies, the US military is expressly forbidden to take part in law enforcement other than under extremely rare circumstances.

All of the said, the vast majority of police officers in my country are concientious, hard working men and women who truly do try to protect and serve. They have to serve in incredibly stressful environments requiring split second decisions which could result in a life lost...theirs, a citizen's or a criminals. In almost all cases they make the right call.

Are ther clowns and assholes?

Yup....but look around your workplace and see if it is absent of the 2 above.

I live in a rural county in South with an 102 person police department. They have to patrol a very large area with an incredibly doverse population....US military members, farmers, a large migrant community overlaid by 2 interstate highways and 2 major state highways....with a major US river thrown in to boot. They write tickets, saolve cases of breakins, back up the military police on FT Lee, lend assistance to other jurisdications and patrol the James River.

They do all of this while being in an open war against the MS13 gang. There are bounties on the heads of 7 officers of our force because they all arrested 4 ringleaders who were harrassing the Hispanic migrant community.

I can't remember the last time a cop shot anyone in my county.

I can't remember the last time a cop in our county fired a shot...and I know a bunch of the officers on the force.

And from my personnel experience living in several parts of the country...that is pretty much the norm.

I received more scrutiny and hassle from police in Germany, France and Poland than I ever have in the US.

Yet I don't pretend to know the day to day operations of the police forces in those countries.

And I do not judge them.

So going back to the case at hand....if you wish to condemn the 2 police officers at question here.

Fine.

But do not brush all of the men and women of US LEAs as the same.

Because you are wrong.

PS: If you want to Google my county and try to prove me wrong...make sure you are reading about Prince George County, VIRGINIA and not Prince George's County, MARYLAND.

[zraver]

Alby, the number of sworn officers is 800,000ish with a total of 1.1 million law enforcement employees many of which have specialized arrest powers- jailers, bailiffs, constables etc.

[Bigfella]

I am intrigued by how international posters who are making judgements on the LEA in the US based on...what?

Do you know or have you lived here?

Or is it all what you read and see in the media?

A lot of it is based on the information I come across in discussions like this. Then I go off & do a bit of burrowing myself. There is an issue in the US. There is no getting around it. The numbers are clear. I wouldn't argue that it is just down to policing, but that has to be a factor.

Here's a comparison. According to the FBI there are about 400 'justifiable homicides' by police every year. That figure is low. Perhaps less than 50% the actual number of people killed by police (reporting is not mandatory). In fact, the WSJ reckons there are another 550 per year not counted in these stats. However, lets go with 400 per year. From 1989 to 2011 Australian police forces killed 105 people (that is not just 'justifiable' killings). That is 4.7 per year. America's population is about 14 times Australia's, so a comparable US figure would be 65. it is probably 10 times that or more.

However, it is worse than that. Australia actually has quite high numbers of police killings compared to places like Britain, Germany and others in Europe (let alone somewhere like Japan). Germany has a similar number of police killings per year as Australia with 4 times the population. Apparently in Canada, with a population a bit over 10% of America's, its about 12 a year.

In 2013 British police officers discharged their weapons 3 times:

Last year, in total, British police officers actually fired their weapons three times. The number of people fatally shot was zero. In 2012 the figure was just one. Even after adjusting for the smaller size of Britain’s population, British citizens are around 100 times less likely to be shot by a police officer than Americans. Between 2010 and 2014 the police force of one small American city, Albuquerque in New Mexico, shot and killed 23 civilians; seven times more than the number of Brits killed by all of England and Wales’s 43 forces during the same period

Armed police: Trigger happy | The Economist

Now, I realise that the US is unique & has a set of circumstances that no one nation duplicates. So, America can't be expected to be exactly like everyone else. However, when the numbers of police killings per capita is likely 10-15 times that of a nation like Australia there are clearly issues that go beyond America's unique social circumstances. Some of that has to be to do with police training and/or tactics.

When there are high profile killings like Ferguson that produce protests there is often a lot of attention over the justification of the shooting & the character of the victim. This tends to get turned into a means to dismiss the protests - 'the kid was bad/the shoot was justified'. From my POV what that misses is that the protests are an expression of deeper anger at policing that isn't just about killings, but is about lower level brutality & humiliations that go unreported and largely unknown outside those communities until a bigger issue brings them to light. I have several African-American friends (a higher number than the average white American ironically ;) ), they each have stories of things that have happened to themselves or friends/family that would have many white Americans I know screaming to high heaven about their 'rights' (unnecessary car stops, harassment & even arrest for no reason). Yet for these folk it was a 'normal' part of life.

I'm sure that most police in America are good people trying to do the right thing and I'm sure that there are a few assholes too, but I stopped buying the 'bad apple' theory of police misconduct decades ago. Some things are the result of institutional problems & require institutional solutions. Unfortunately America's decentralized policing structure makes that incredibly difficult to do. You may have a good county police force, but the next county may not be as lucky.