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Obama criticized for remarks on ISIS, Christianity

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  • #31
    After Batu Khan they started to lose in Eastern Europe.The Mamlukes also began to beat them around the same time.

    It took some hundreds of years to eliminate them as a viable force,but after 1241 they never could do anything but raid.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      I don't recall the Mongol slaughter had anything to do with any god ... except gold.
      Psuedo-Mongol Tammerlan is as close as you get. It is probably a good thing for humanity the Mogols were not salafist...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Mihais View Post
        You don't have facts.
        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
        Those are not facts. Those are just unsubstantiated opinions without any underlying facts to support them and only biased to support an assertion of fallacious "logic".

        Going by your standards set forth in your assertions, one could just say that mankind's thinking is bad for the humanity and the world.
        Parents mutilating their children's genitalia. People burnt because they dare to sing hyms in their own language rather than latin. Entire communities massacre each other because of who they think the true successors of their prophets are.

        Yeah, no facts indeed.

        And my assertion : not a problem with mankind actually thinking (is the sun really a god or just a glowing ball of gas), lots of problems with mankind blindly believing crap.
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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        • #34
          Z, they weren't,but there were still too many useless sedentary people and so little pasture for the herds.
          Those who know don't speak
          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            I don't recall the Mongol slaughter had anything to do with any god ... except gold.
            I never said they were the only game in town. But for something that is spiritual, peaceful and uplifting, religion sure has a high body count
            "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mihais View Post
              Correct about the Crusades.Don't think you're so correct about the rest.Warfare was the norm.Christianity did much to limit its effects.You don't get a pyramid of heads and you don't have mass burial alive. Christinity had a role in the eventual progress of the West.Starting with work ethics,individualism and personal responsability.
              Christianity benefited the world.Otherwise you'd still have sacrifices to Quetzalcoatl.

              Everything human has its downsizes.But there is too much BS about the wrongdoings of Christians(them bad white Europeans),almost nothing about the good and too much praise for the supposed virtues of everything else.
              Mihais, I was not attempting to underplay the contribution of Christianity to the development of European Civilization and it can be argued that it's influence did have a moderating effect on the conduct of wars during the period in question as an aside to the other positive values it brought to the medieval societies as whole. I would argue however that while it have influenced the conduct of wars between the (at least nominally Christian) Kings & Emperors of the time it did little to reduce the frequency/incidence of war. A Christian King might moderate his behavior in the field when facing a co-coreligionist, if only because of the threat of chastisement for Rome but the fact they shared a common religion did little to prevent him from declaring war in the first place. Not to mention trying to maintain 'Christian values' amongst the troops in the field - pity the rural village set upon by a medieval foraging party for example. Never-the-less there were Ordinances of War issues by Kings at the start of medieval campaigns or battles which set out the conduct of troops and the treatment of prisoners etc and these ordinances were supposed to be followed by the troops and commanders in the field. The Church and Christianity heavily influenced the provisions contained in these ordinances.
              Last edited by Monash; 08 Feb 15,, 11:14.
              If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                So, in Obama's view, when will 4th Crusade begin?
                Err ...unless I miss my guess Obama would say it commenced in 1202 and ended (badly) in 1204.
                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by antimony View Post
                  I never said they were the only game in town. But for something that is spiritual, peaceful and uplifting, religion sure has a high body count
                  Usually because it makes the perfect vehicle for unifying and aligning the general populous of a nation or region behind the military ambitions of the relevant ruling class. If you can't use religion use race, failing that, historic enmity (a previous history of war with X) or failing that economic privation - they are rich add have lots of food which they won't share , lets get them. In a modern socienty football jerseys will do the trick. All you need is something to separate the 'tribes' into them and us. Religion used to work best though because it is such a universal human trait.
                  If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                    After Batu Khan they started to lose in Eastern Europe.
                    There wasn't any great victories to speak of.

                    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                    The Mamlukes also began to beat them around the same time.
                    Mamlukes were Turks.
                    Chimo

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                    • #40
                      Late to the party I know. Personally I don't give a fuck about people's invisible friends, nor what they do with their invisible friends unless they go around slaughtering people. What I do object to is being told to get off my high horse because I object to the current bunch of idiot religious types killing masses of people because Christianity and Islam had a war during which Christians killed people. Obama can take his invisible friend, his invisible friends friends and all who think slaughter now is ok because some other nutters did it a Millenia ago and stick it up their pompose insane arses. Daesh bad. Parihaka and people like parihaka kill daesh. Insane people with invisible friends shut the fuck up.
                      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                      Leibniz

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                      • #41
                        Busy praying for world peace and many women,can't stfu
                        Those who know don't speak
                        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                          Obama can take his invisible friend, his invisible friends friends and all who think slaughter now is ok because some other nutters did it a Millenia ago and stick it up their pompose insane arses. Daesh bad. Parihaka and people like parihaka kill daesh. Insane people with invisible friends shut the fuck up.
                          Based on the quoted text I'm not sure that is what Obama was doing P. He didn't appear to be justifying war in the name of religion but rather arguing against it.
                          If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            But he was also relativizing the issue.''Yeah,there are some muslim baddies today,but look in the mirror ya evil bastards''.
                            Those who know don't speak
                            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              There wasn't any great victories to speak of.

                              Mamlukes were Turks.
                              The Mongols stopped winning in Europe.They kept winning in other areas.

                              The Mongols that went to the ME were also mainly Turks.
                              Those who know don't speak
                              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                                The Mongols stopped winning in Europe.They kept winning in other areas.
                                Because they were busy at home. Not because of any European military prowness.

                                Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                                The Mongols that went to the ME were also mainly Turks.
                                Yes, meaning that they had the same military knowledge base.
                                Chimo

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