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Thread: US Army rejects the M9A3, to replace the M9

  1. #16
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    Totally unrelated article except for one part:

    I DIDN'T GET THAT MEMO: Georgia police chief claims his force has to switch to 9mm handguns... because U.S. military switched to .40? - Bearing Arms

    I am the Firearms Instructor for the Senoia Police Department. A few months ago one of our officers experienced a malfunction during qualification with his Glock 22. Glock was kind enough to have a rep stop by and repair it for us.

    It was then that we learned that the majority of our inventory was nearly ten years. The rep suggested that we refurbish or replace the inventory. Cost to refurbish was approximately $140 per firearm. Or the cost to replace was $409 with a $300 credit with each firearm traded in, thereby each new firearm would only cost $109.

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    After Iraq and Afghanistan the US military seems to have really gotten the gospel w.r.t. ergonomics. You've got every soldier kitting out their M4s and other primary weapons with all manners of sights, grips, etc. Seems to me no reason this trend won't affect this competition.
    At the end of the day the various attachments are basically a side issue. The basic platform doesn't really change after all - an M4 is an M4 is an M4 so to speak. What has changed is the rate at which the US Army and other Western armies are adopting commercial gear as 'standard issue' when their troops find and buy stuff that works at their own expense - which is a good thing given the historic 'glacial' pace at which new equipment and technologies used to be adopted.

  3. #18
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    1911s are a joy to shoot, but they are NOT the gun I'd want on my hip in a combat situation. A 7 round single stack magazine is unacceptable, as is the maintenance a 1911 requires compared to a modern designs.

    The most logical choice is almost certainly the 4th gen 9mm Glock. It is lightweight, high capacity, inexpensive, reliable, easy to maintain, highly modular with a large existing market, and thoroughly proven in real life usage.

    That being said, they are ugly and the military seems to have a raging hard-on for external safeties, so who knows.
    Springfield XD it is!

    It's European. It has a grip safety. It does not need to have the trigger pulled in order to disassemble. What's not to like?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  4. #19
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    Do they still, though? Glocks are quite popular in SOCOM.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple C View Post
    Do they still, though? Glocks are quite popular in SOCOM.
    Thats SOCOM, not 18 yr olds out of basic training. The regular army side arm has to be safe in a much larger variety of hands and brain and hormonal development states.

    p

  6. #21
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    Let's be real - for the majority of those carrying a side arm, going the old European way of a .32 or .380 "pocket" pistol would be fine. Plus, you'd find that people wouldn't complain about the weight and leave it at thier desk or hanging on the crapper door.
    I'm Air Force enlisted - the M9 is to make me feel like I'm in the fight. I'd prefer a Makarov to the M9. For those in Combat Arms, I know - it is a different story.
    "Bother", said Poo, chambering another round.

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    That being true, PDs all over the US are carrying Glocks and they aren't better trained than the average army soldier. As there is a larger pool of experience with striker-fired sidearms in the Army I think they might be a bit more open to the idea... that said, it's equally possible that they would end up with a traditional DA/SA. It'd be nice if the Army bails out HK with a contract!
    Last edited by Triple C; 15 Jan 15, at 15:42.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
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  8. #23
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Thats SOCOM, not 18 yr olds out of basic training. The regular army side arm has to be safe in a much larger variety of hands and brain and hormonal development states.
    I've always thought the logic for having an external safety was rather silly. As soon as that gun comes out of the holster, the safety is going to get flicked off just out of sheer reflex. That being the case, why bother? Modern guns don't go bang when you drop them anymore.

    Let's be real - for the majority of those carrying a side arm, going the old European way of a .32 or .380 "pocket" pistol would be fine.
    I think what would make the most sense is to adopt the Glock and give the full size model 17 to the grunts who may use it in combat, and let non-combat or support guys get away with carrying the subcompact model 26. Most of the stuff (mags, internals, etc.) is interchangeable between them, so the logistics involved shouldn't be too much of a pain.

  9. #24
    Contributor chanjyj's Avatar
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    Attachment 38942

    This was RSAF standard issue 8 years ago, and I think still is. Why the need to change is beyond me - if it works, use it. More modern <> more effective.

  10. #25
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I've always thought the logic for having an external safety was rather silly. As soon as that gun comes out of the holster, the safety is going to get flicked off just out of sheer reflex. That being the case, why bother? Modern guns don't go bang when you drop them anymore.
    External manual safety is unnecessary. The best safety should be between the ears. Introducing an extra lever/button/switch might confuse people who are already at the limit of their processing power.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I think what would make the most sense is to adopt the Glock and give the full size model 17 to the grunts who may use it in combat, and let non-combat or support guys get away with carrying the subcompact model 26. Most of the stuff (mags, internals, etc.) is interchangeable between them, so the logistics involved shouldn't be too much of a pain.
    Glock 26 is horrible for anyone with larger hands because of that 2-finger grip. Glock 19 is the universal Glock for just about anyone. I would just go with Glock 19 for everyone rather than have a 2 tier system.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  11. #26
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanjyj View Post
    Attachment 38942

    This was RSAF standard issue 8 years ago, and I think still is. Why the need to change is beyond me - if it works, use it. More modern <> more effective.
    DUDE!!! Can I have some of them P226s?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    That kid needs to properly organize his toy box! Then he will wonder why his toys are all scuffed up.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I've always thought the logic for having an external safety was rather silly. As soon as that gun comes out of the holster, the safety is going to get flicked off just out of sheer reflex. That being the case, why bother? Modern guns don't go bang when you drop them anymore.

    You'd be surprised how many people in the military think guns are scary things that can "go off by themselves".
    "Bother", said Poo, chambering another round.

  14. #29
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    External manual safety is unnecessary. The best safety should be between the ears. Introducing an extra lever/button/switch might confuse people who are already at the limit of their processing power.
    Reminds me of that scene in Black Hawk Down between Ranger Captain Steele played, by Jason Isaacs, and Hoot, played by Eric Bana:

    Steele: I'm talking about your weapon. [points to Hoot's slung M4] Delta or no Delta, that's a hot weapon. You know better than that. Your safety should be on at all times on base.
    Hoot: [holding up his index finger] Well, this is my safety, sir. [bends finger and walks away]

    Attachment 38944
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    DUDE!!! Can I have some of them P226s?
    You'd have to steal them from my ex-armourer.

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    That kid needs to properly organize his toy box! Then he will wonder why his toys are all scuffed up.
    IIRC those were used for flight crew range time. Now, don't ask me why they would purchase a pile of P226s JUST FOR the range. On the other hand, I did see some AR15s and M72s lying around too. Hoarding Vietnam era stuff

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