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Terror Attacks in Paris : 17 killed, Terrorists dead

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  • #46
    nous sommes tous Charlie!!!
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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    • #47
      This is a post re-shared by my Muslim friend's FB.

      Tariq Ramadan:

      Charlie Hebdo: NO! NO! NO!
      Contrary to what was apparently said by the killers in the bombing of Charlie Hebdo's headquarters, it is not the Prophet who was avenged, it is our religion, our values and Islamic principles that have been betrayed and tainted .
      My condemnation is absolute and my anger is profound (healthy and a thousand times justified) against this horror!!!
      Allow me to express my deep sympathy and sincere condolences to the families of the victims.
      I know less than a handful of Muslims during my time in the US. One of them is a high school teacher and coaches soccer. Another is a Fulbright scholar and a volunteer/researcher at an addiction clinic in NYC. They are regular folk eking out a living and beyond outrage at the fanatics and barbarians dragging their name through the mud. My muslim acquaintances and the savages killing cartoonists and office workers are two groups of people and they don't practice the same religion.
      All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
      -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Triple C View Post
        This is a post re-shared by my Muslim friend's FB.

        Tariq Ramadan:



        I know less than a handful of Muslims during my time in the US. One of them is a high school teacher and coaches soccer. Another is a Fulbright scholar and a volunteer/researcher at an addiction clinic in NYC. They are regular folk eking out a living and beyond outrage at the fanatics and barbarians dragging their name through the mud. My muslim acquaintances and the savages killing cartoonists and office workers are two groups of people and they don't practice the same religion.
        saying stuff like 'they're not real muslim. We dont practice same religion' is just a way to run away from their responsibility. Its time for those 'peaceful, real muslim' to step up and do something to fix their own problem.

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        • #49
          NKVD and Allgemeine SS were tiny minorities as well.Not representative,bla-bla...
          Those who know don't speak
          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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          • #50
            Originally posted by dan m View Post
            You might have seen these cartoons making the rounds on facebook or twitter in response. Some of them are pretty brutal.
            http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthi...ch#.wcWBvxY0Xd
            Superb :Dancing-Banana:

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Triple C View Post
              I know less than a handful of Muslims during my time in the US. One of them is a high school teacher and coaches soccer. Another is a Fulbright scholar and a volunteer/researcher at an addiction clinic in NYC. They are regular folk eking out a living and beyond outrage at the fanatics and barbarians dragging their name through the mud. My muslim acquaintances and the savages killing cartoonists and office workers are two groups of people and they don't practice the same religion.
              So, who is the apostate and who is actually following Islam and not Islam-lite? Are "kosher" Muslims in the West are treated with any sort of seriousness as Muslims in the Islamic world ?

              Originally posted by drhuy View Post
              saying stuff like 'they're not real muslim. We dont practice same religion' is just a way to run away from their responsibility. Its time for those 'peaceful, real muslim' to step up and do something to fix their own problem.
              Not really, how do you expect ineffectual "moderate" Muslims to do anything relevant within their own societies, not just in the Western World, but in the Islamic world? The face of "moderate" Islam is akin to that of the brave Iraqi army who turned tail and ran at the first sign of combat - , in fact, Iraq is a perfect example, a terribly under performing, haphazard mix of Western enlightenment-era values applied like a pastiche over Islamic society. Why stop there, the Libyan "moderates" (do they even exist?) Syrian "liberals" and the popularity of Erdogans AKP tell me all I need to know about the political relevance of "liberal" Islam in the Islamic world.

              It's time for Western, or at least French legal institutions to make strands of Islam like Wahabbism and Salafism( that have shown themselves to be regressive, pollutive ideologies in other societies - like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) illegal and make any people who support, adhere and preach those versions of Islam persona non-grata. The fact is that extremism in this form continues to remain legal as long as individuals who hold these values and opinions dear to them do not break the law - however, they foster and create an environment where more hot-headed active extremists are want to act on the religious impulses. Impulses they have been force-fed to believe at private madrassas or religious schools. As long as they are allowed to maintain closed-off, cloistered enclaves where there is no cultural cross-pollination with wider society, there will be a fertile breeding ground for home-grown terrorists - something that has shown to not be simply a one-off thing but a very real problem. There needs to be a very real concerted effort not from moderate-Muslims, but from the French Government (and Western Governments) to tackle the growth of domestic Wahabbi and Salafi ideology head-on.

              The problem is, there is no distinguishing from "liberal" Muslims who place more value in the cultural, social and political norms of their home society than they do in their religion - those who are represented by a handful of ineffectual, irrelevant organizations and the Salafis and Wahabbis who nominally obey Western law whilst spouting bile and hatred within their own community, often financing institutions that promote this ideology not just in the West but back in the Islamic world. Muslims in the West need to openly abandon whatever form of political wahabbi/salafi Islam they have, and the Government in a show of force with these Muslims need to make illegal forms of Islam that are fundamentally incompatible with the current tangent of Western society. By refusing to tackle fundamentalist Islam and allowing it to proliferate, Governments are only cutting out the legs from underneath the frail and ineffectual "moderate Muslims" who have shown themselves to be political and religiously irrelevant in the Islamic world.

              China seems to have a solution in this regard, which is only tolerating the existence of Muslim/Christian religious organizations that have explicit approval of the state to exist, with carefully screened doctrine and teaching. Hell, Henry VIII essentially created Anglicanism as a response to increasingly politcized religion following the Protestant Reformation. It's time to start thinking of how to make Islam accommodating to Western Enlightenment-era value, rather than vice versa, because the opposite has been tried and it has failed miserably.

              Iif a few religious truths have to be bent here and there, it truly is a real pity /sarcasm
              Last edited by Bridgeburner_; 08 Jan 15,, 12:02.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by drhuy View Post
                saying stuff like 'they're not real muslim. We dont practice same religion' is just a way to run away from their responsibility. Its time for those 'peaceful, real muslim' to step up and do something to fix their own problem.
                And apart from complete condemnation, what do you expect an individual must do to have a clear conscious?

                Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                This is a post re-shared by my Muslim friend's FB.

                Tariq Ramadan:

                I know less than a handful of Muslims during my time in the US. One of them is a high school teacher and coaches soccer. Another is a Fulbright scholar and a volunteer/researcher at an addiction clinic in NYC. They are regular folk eking out a living and beyond outrage at the fanatics and barbarians dragging their name through the mud. My muslim acquaintances and the savages killing cartoonists and office workers are two groups of people and they don't practice the same religion.
                There is a clear distinction. But the problem people are not as few as some would think, I think the number can be placed at 15-20% of the muslim community in the middle east-north africa region.


                http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/mid...t-muslims.html

                Your handful of friends are in the 80-85% of the muslim community, although maybe that needs to be sub-divided further.
                Attached Files

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by troung View Post
                  A magazine, no one who speaks English read(s), gets attacked in a country which doesn't speak English and it still ranked higher then the Hilton...
                  This is more to be related with "Trending' concept in SEO. All of a sudden there were loads of search for the "Paris/France Attack" and "Charlie Hebdo" which is why it came up in top searches all of a sudden. Check this -> http://www.buzzfeed.com/trending

                  btw below is more info.Another attack and a policewoman killed and backslash as few Mosques torched.

                  Several attacks on France Muslim targets since magazine shooting: officials - Hindustan Times
                  Following the terror attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine office, Muslims places of worship in two French towns were fired upon overnight, leaving no casualties, prosecutors said Thursday - See more at: Several attacks on France Muslim targets since magazine shooting: officials - Hindustan Times
                  Paris Charlie Hebdo attack: live - Telegraph
                  Last edited by Batista; 08 Jan 15,, 12:24.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                    And apart from complete condemnation, what do you expect an individual must do to have a clear conscious?



                    There is a clear distinction. But the problem people are not as few as some would think, I think the number can be placed at 15-20% of the muslim community in the middle east-north africa region.

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]38895[/ATTACH]
                    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/mid...t-muslims.html

                    Your handful of friends are in the 80-85% of the muslim community, although maybe that needs to be sub-divided further.
                    i'm not referring to any particular individual, but the whole muslim world (or at least the peaceful part of it). Apparently, who should bear the main responsibility of fixing the problem of muslim world if not themselves?

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                    • #55
                      According to French media, the "homeless 18-year-old" (who turned himself in last night) has an alibi for the time of the attack - he was at school.
                      Last edited by kato; 08 Jan 15,, 12:38.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by drhuy View Post
                        i'm not referring to any particular individual, but the whole muslim world (or at least the peaceful part of it). Apparently, who should bear the main responsibility of fixing the problem of muslim world if not themselves?
                        Yet, the whole muslim world is composed of individuals. There is no rome.

                        Responsibility bears on everyone who wants to stop terrorist attacks. If there happening in France, for example, France hardly has the luxury of attempting to identity who bears responsibility for a lack of action on the root of the problem, and even if they found a meaningful group, waiting for them to fulfill their responsibility.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by drhuy View Post
                          i'm not referring to any particular individual, but the whole muslim world (or at least the peaceful part of it). Apparently, who should bear the main responsibility of fixing the problem of muslim world if not themselves?
                          Moderate muslims have to take a stand, unfortunately the liberal ones are out of it.

                          To take on the extremists it requires a good knowledge to counter twisted ideas. Here is a talk from 2010 by a naturalised Canadian , Tahir ul Qadri. he supported the awami party whose candidates were either intimidated, threatened or killed prevented in contesting the elections in pakistan in 2013.

                          Only muslims can win this battle.
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Jan 15,, 12:57.

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                          • #58
                            i personally mostly agree with the Bridgeburner.

                            Muslims MUST take responsabilities about these so-called muslim terrorists... after all it is obvious that Islam do not benefit greatly from these terrorist attacks in any terms.

                            the thing is can ANYONE afford to see the realities behind these "fanatics"?
                            Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                              Yet, the whole muslim world is composed of individuals. There is no rome.
                              Not quite, for the Shia at least, Tehran is Rome. The 12ers are at last as organized as Christendom. The fragmentation is Sunni, and Salafist/Wahabist in particular.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                Not quite, for the Shia at least, Tehran is Rome. The 12ers are at last as organized as Christendom. The fragmentation is Sunni, and Salafist/Wahabist in particular.
                                True, but the 'organization' of Iranian Shi'aism into an institution means little since it still preaches and practices pretty much the same chaotic and fanatical messages that encourage and sanction violence in the name of Islam which can be found in the fragmented Sunni 'world'.

                                Ever heard of Mohsen Amir Aslani? He was executed in Iran last year for questioning the Biblical story of 'Jonah and the Whale'. Hanged to death for 'blasphemy'. The Islamic Republic has imprisoned and executed scores of Iranian intellectuals, journalists and even clerics from within their own fold. The regime in Iran carries out more executions than any other state in the World except for China. China is a country of 1.3 billion people, Iran, just over 75 million.

                                What happened in Paris yesterday is no different in substance from the hanging of Mohsen Amir Aslani in Iran for 'blaspheming' against the 'Prophet Jonah'. The only difference is that one was executed by a state, the others by a gang. But all lost their lives because of an Islamic verdict that their critiques of Islam were enough to have death passed on them.

                                "Extremism" in the so-called 'Islamic world' isnt the preserve of non-state actors or outside of the mainstream. Sometimes, it is the mainstream, or in the case of Iran, is actually the state itself today.
                                Last edited by 1980s; 08 Jan 15,, 14:45.

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