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  • #16
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    As people living in a free country we are entitled to demand an explanation whenever our govt does anything. That's a given. People not trusting and always questioning the govt is healthy. Critical requirement to remaining free so never forget it.

    The govt having done so and empowered to act in this particular situation means the story is over. They asked, the govt replied. Loshali was a bit blunt but his job is to keep the coasts under his watch safe and when unidentified vessels approach he then has to investigate. Fleeing isn't an option. Warning shots fired. Ample chances offered to surrender. We don't do death squads.

    You can question the govt version but its not getting very far. If it appears like an appeasement to Pakistan who has not let out a peep so far then it signals to them that were are open to deal. Add this one to apology extracted from the army over the killing of those two boys in Kashmir back in Nov.
    DE, the guy was mouthing off without any proof. Even the Pakistani's weren't making a scene and this guy was just going to streets with some theory that he came up from thin air. Did his theory have any kind of backing ? He said they could have been smugglers who were smuggling Diesel from Pakistan to India. I mean come on, Diesel was costlier to smuggle to India and sell it at a loss ?

    I agree questions should be raised but without any backing at all ?? The boat did try to flee and was chased for almost an hour before the crew torched the ship. As per the apology of the Army it was mainly due to Modi and I didn't like it one bit. Army did it's job , stupid teenagers to blame.

    Comment


    • #17
      Let's go to town on Swami (who quit the Hindu back in June due to the 'hostile' atmosphere) to examine his bases, beginning with..

      Doubts mount over India’s claims of destroying ‘terror boat’ from Pakistan | IE | Jan 03 2015

      most important line..

      “I’ve been talking to our people in the area”, said Narsibhai Jungi Jadeja, the head of the Porbandar fishing boat owners’ association, “and everyone insists they didn’t see a thing. That surprises me, because a fire at night would be visible many nautical miles away”.

      I just hope the government clears up the mystery over this, because if any Pakistani fishermen have been killed, the Pakistan navy will take vengeance on us,” he said.
      Otherwise there are couple of questions raised, the weather was not bad on the night it happened and its possible for small fisher boats to outrun the coast guard if they have enough horse power.

      Pakistan boat explosion: Def Min prepares for a full internal review of wireless intercepts | IE | Jan 04 2015
      Paks say its a hoax and nobody reported missing in Pakistan

      In a December 31 message, the NTRO said it had picked up Thuraya phone communications between the crew of the fishing boat and their associates on land, but stated they pertained to illicit trafficking, not terrorism. The conversation referred to valuable cargo being transferred.

      Thuraya phone communications were intercepted by the NTRO between 2006 and 2008, but their use by terrorists largely ended after it became clear that India had the capacity to break into the network. In the years since, terrorist commanders have switched to encrypted Inmarsat4 and Inmarsat5 sets with frequency-hopping, or to secure VoIP systems.

      Fishermen, however, continue to use the sets routinely — buying them cheaply in Pakistan, or at even lower prices in the UAE. Thuraya sets, though illegal in India, are widely used the world over, and are popular as they can tap into cellular networks where available.
      Pakistan boat trail allegedly linked to Karachi-based drug mafia | IE | Jan 05 2015
      Paks confirm its a drug boat.

      The Indian Express had first reported on Saturday that Indian intelligence agencies had not established any terror link to the boat that blew up in suspicious circumstances. Forensic experts contacted by The Sunday Express noted that photographs of the burning boat showed its structure was intact, a fact inconsistent with the explosions burning munitions would normally set off.

      Pakistani security sources, meanwhile, seemed sympathetic to the Indian operation. “I don’t blame the Indians with their Mumbai 26/11 experience… These looked to be petty criminals who were at a wrong place at a wrong time,” a source said.
      And finally over a month later

      Why the truth on Pakistan boat matters: the lies hurt our national security system | IE | Feb 18 2015

      Sadly, little of Parrikar’s account so far has stood up against the mounting waves of questions. He asserted in one television interview that the Coast Guard maintained a kilometre’s distance from the boat – and yet, minutes later, insisted the suspect crew had been cornered. He contradicted himself on whether or not the government thought there were explosives on board.

      He even speculated that the crew might have killed themselves by consuming cyanide as they set the boat on fire – an account for which no basis has so far been offered.

      No evidence has been made available, either to show that the men were terrorists. The National Technical Research Organisation says it has tapes – but Intelligence Bureau and Research and Analysis Wing experts say the conversations have nothing to do with terrorism. Parrikar says he cannot disclose this part of the evidence on national security grounds.
      For hard-working officers, who have long watched as a minority of careerists win promotions and honours for fabricating stories which happen to suit politicians, these questions have a special significance. In past decades, there have been several instances where officials faked operations which were hailed by politicians – undermining the armed forces’ integrity and morale.

      Before he took office as National Security Advisor, Ajit Doval had stated that the Army leadership had failed to act on a wealth of intelligence on the looming Pakistani attack on Kargil. Yet, there’s been no move towards accountability.

      Instead, the Ministry of Defence has gone to the Supreme Court to challenge an order by the Armed Forces Tribunal, slamming the Ministry for falsifying battle records to shield top commanders, while making their subordinates scapegoats.

      Brigadier Devinder Singh, a highly-decorated war hero whose treatment by the Army and Ministry of Defence led the tribunal to issue its orders, insists “it is shamming that hurts the morale of the armed forces, not its exposure”.

      He said: “I don’t want to comment on the particulars of this controversy, because I don’t know the facts. But I do know that officers and men in my brigade, who gave their all in Kargil, were deeply pained by cases where undeserving people walked away with medals.”
      And there you have it. So what has swami done wrong ? this guy is an investigative journalist.
      Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Feb 15,, 16:52.

      Comment


      • #18
        This incident should be a lesson for PM Modi, that one should never use military operations as PR events, without enough evidence. They tend to backfire rather badly.

        Cheers!...on the rocks!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          Let's go to town on Swami (who quit the Hindu back in June due to the 'hostile' atmosphere) to examine his bases, beginning with..

          Doubts mount over India’s claims of destroying ‘terror boat’ from Pakistan | IE | Jan 03 2015

          most important line..



          Otherwise there are couple of questions raised, the weather was not bad on the night it happened and its possible for small fisher boats to outrun the coast guard if they have enough horse power.
          Come on, We have seen fishermen arrested on both the sides and whenever a Naval vessel asks you to stop you normally stop and not try to outrun and create suspicion especially when you know the Navy has Guns and Shit and can easily blow them off.


          Pakistan boat explosion: Def Min prepares for a full internal review of wireless intercepts | IE | Jan 04 2015
          Paks say its a hoax and nobody reported missing in Pakistan



          Pakistan boat trail allegedly linked to Karachi-based drug mafia | IE | Jan 05 2015
          Paks confirm its a drug boat.



          And finally over a month later

          Why the truth on Pakistan boat matters: the lies hurt our national security system | IE | Feb 18 2015





          And there you have it. So what has swami done wrong ? this guy is an investigative journalist.
          So first they deny anything to do with the incident, then later say it might have been mafia that was behind it, I saw in an interview in TimesNow the Pakistani guy said there were no Pakistani's in it. It was a guy named Peerzadha I guess. Sounds similar to 26/11 ?? Also IB has been warning of another 26/11 attack for quite sometime now and that is no joke. Now comes Praveen who claims it could be smugglers and that it was wrong what India did. I mean seriously ?? He was ranting in Pakistani media if you want to check if he has really good intentions of fishermen in mind. Pakistani govt is not making a fuzz and this guy blew it up and literally handed them a baton to beat us with.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by lemontree View Post
            This incident should be a lesson for PM Modi, that one should never use military operations as PR events, without enough evidence. They tend to backfire rather badly.
            When and where was this a PR event captn ? Defence Minister was very clear from the beginning that it could have been terrorists or could be smugglers.. but their actions tend to prove they were most likely terrorists. Moreover keeping the public in loop for such an incident will help the public know what has been done and gives them a confidence that yes we can prevent another possible 26/11 if not are better prepared. I honestly dont think this as a PR event. The media made it a huge PR event if you would ask me since anything Modi does is scrutinized for TRP even if it's of national security.

            Anyway you know better in this and I would leave it at this and don't want to drag this anymore.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by commander View Post
              Come on, We have seen fishermen arrested on both the sides and whenever a Naval vessel asks you to stop you normally stop and not try to outrun and create suspicion especially when you know the Navy has Guns and Shit and can easily blow them off.
              Correct, but in this case a boat catches on fire and sinks with all on board.

              Originally posted by commander View Post
              So first they deny anything to do with the incident, then later say it might have been mafia that was behind it, I saw in an interview in TimesNow the Pakistani guy said there were no Pakistani's in it. It was a guy named Peerzadha I guess. Sounds similar to 26/11 ??
              What amazes me is they first say nobody and then afterwards confirm it. Its like they are under pressure to give a response, why not just say we will check and respond with the correct info.

              Originally posted by commander View Post
              Also IB has been warning of another 26/11 attack for quite sometime now and that is no joke.
              IB and RAW both disagree with NTRO that this has anything to do with terrorism. How to explain that.

              Originally posted by commander View Post
              Now comes Praveen who claims it could be smugglers and that it was wrong what India did. I mean seriously ??
              He hasn't said they are smugglers, he has quoted Pak surmises. he is asking questions that is all.

              Originally posted by commander View Post
              He was ranting in Pakistani media if you want to check if he has really good intentions of fishermen in mind.
              Can you link that here ?

              Originally posted by commander View Post
              Pakistani govt is not making a fuzz and this guy blew it up and literally handed them a baton to beat us with.
              Way i see it is he is trying to get a clearer picture. There are loose ends here. See the editorial in my paper on Saturday.

              Govt's boat theory blown up | DH | Feb 21 2015

              Feb 21, 2015, DHNS
              Coast Guard DIG B K Loshali’s statement that he had ordered destruction of a Pakistani boat with four persons in it off the Gujarat coast last December has actually blown up the government’s claims and theories about the incident.

              The defence ministry had claimed that the intruding boat was chased by the Coast Guard and, when cornered, those on board had themselves set fire to the boat which sank without a trace. There was also a variation in the story which said the occupants of the boat had taken cyanide. The government’s theory does not sound credible at all.

              Why would the occupants want to kill themselves? Or take cyanide? The BJP and the government even claimed that the security agency’s vigil had averted a 26/11 style attack on the country. But the party’s and the government’s assertions had too many holes, inconsistencies and contradictions even then.

              Loshali’s statement has exposed them and raised uncomfortable questions about the government’s stance in the matter. The loose ends were obvious too, like the statement that the Coast Guard vessel could not catch up with the fishing boat for a long time. Photographs of the burning boat did not support claims about the nature of the fire.

              There was also nothing to prove that the occupants were terrorists. Communications which, it was said, would prove that they were terrorists, were never made public. Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has offered to place the facts before the public but has not done so in many weeks. Even now he has repeated his promise.

              Unfortunately, there is also a temptation on the part of the government and the BJP to brand those who ask questions as unpatriotic. It was even claimed that such questioning would give oxygen to Pakistan and hurt the country’s national security interests. This is wrong and unacceptable.

              The government tried to take political advantage of the incident and it cannot evade its responsibility now. Taking action against the official does not help either. It will dent the credibility of the government in the international arena if it is seen as making false claims, especially on national security issues.

              The incident took place outside India’s territorial waters, and if Loshali’s statement is correct, the action amounted to violation of international law without any credible defence. The incident, which amounts to crime, was almost similar to the killing of the fishermen from Kerala by two Italian marines in 2012.

              If Loshali’s statement is an empty boast, it is for the government to place all the facts in the public realm to support its claim. In any case, the defence minister must, at least now, come out and place evidence of government’s defence in the boat incident.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 23 Feb 15,, 17:33.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                Correct, but in this case a boat catches on fire and sinks with all on board.
                Now we are in agreement here here's what Praveen Swami has to say,

                Doubts mount over India’s claims of destroying ‘terror boat’ from Pakistan

                Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.
                What new evidence ? Where is that evidence, why is that not released to India then ?? Speculative and incorrect reporting.

                What amazes me is they first say nobody and then afterwards confirm it. Its like they are under pressure to give a response, why not just say we will check and respond with the correct info.
                Similar to that of 26/11. If they were indeed innocents why not prove their innocence then ?

                IB and RAW both disagree with NTRO that this has anything to do with terrorism. How to explain that.
                Fair point and debatable.

                He hasn't said they are smugglers, he has quoted the Paks who said it. he is asking questions that is all.
                He said "evidence" is there that these guys were smugglers and there is no so called evidence from Pakistani's to validate this claim either.

                Can you link that here ?
                Indian Journalist Praveen Swami Blasts Indian Navy For Their Boat Drama Against Pakistan

                Way i see it is he is trying to get a clearer picture. There are loose ends here. See the editorial in my paper on Saturday.

                Govt's boat theory blown up | DH | Feb 21 2015

                Feb 21, 2015, DHNS
                Coast Guard DIG B K Loshali’s statement that he had ordered destruction of a Pakistani boat with four persons in it off the Gujarat coast last December has actually blown up the government’s claims and theories about the incident.

                The defence ministry had claimed that the intruding boat was chased by the Coast Guard and, when cornered, those on board had themselves set fire to the boat which sank without a trace. There was also a variation in the story which said the occupants of the boat had taken cyanide. The government’s theory does not sound credible at all.

                Why would the occupants want to kill themselves? Or take cyanide? The BJP and the government even claimed that the security agency’s vigil had averted a 26/11 style attack on the country. But the party’s and the government’s assertions had too many holes, inconsistencies and contradictions even then.

                Loshali’s statement has exposed them and raised uncomfortable questions about the government’s stance in the matter. The loose ends were obvious too, like the statement that the Coast Guard vessel could not catch up with the fishing boat for a long time. Photographs of the burning boat did not support claims about the nature of the fire.

                There was also nothing to prove that the occupants were terrorists. Communications which, it was said, would prove that they were terrorists, were never made public. Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has offered to place the facts before the public but has not done so in many weeks. Even now he has repeated his promise.

                Unfortunately, there is also a temptation on the part of the government and the BJP to brand those who ask questions as unpatriotic. It was even claimed that such questioning would give oxygen to Pakistan and hurt the country’s national security interests. This is wrong and unacceptable.

                The government tried to take political advantage of the incident and it cannot evade its responsibility now. Taking action against the official does not help either. It will dent the credibility of the government in the international arena if it is seen as making false claims, especially on national security issues.

                The incident took place outside India’s territorial waters, and if Loshali’s statement is correct, the action amounted to violation of international law without any credible defence. The incident, which amounts to crime, was almost similar to the killing of the fishermen from Kerala by two Italian marines in 2012.

                If Loshali’s statement is an empty boast, it is for the government to place all the facts in the public realm to support its claim. In any case, the defence minister must, at least now, come out and place evidence of government’s defence in the boat incident.
                Questioning is absolutely fine, but before going to streets with it and questioning the credibility of the government shouldn't have they waited for the government to release the proof and put pressure on them for that rather than first claiming that whatever the govt did was wrong and then asking them to release all the proofs. Don't you agree ?? That is what I have an disagreement with.
                Last edited by commander; 23 Feb 15,, 17:37.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by commander View Post
                  Now we are in agreement here here's what Praveen Swami has to say,

                  Doubts mount over India’s claims of destroying ‘terror boat’ from Pakistan



                  What new evidence ? Where is that evidence, why is that not released to India then ?? Speculative and incorrect reporting.
                  On jan 05 he says, quoting pak sources..

                  Investigators in Karachi have identified the fishing boat destroyed on New Year’s Eve during an Indian Coast Guard operation as a vessel allegedly linked to a drug mafia based in Pakistan, highly-placed police sources said.
                  The sources told The Indian Express that the 25-foot vessel, named Qalandar, was captained by Yaqboob Baloch, a resident of the gang war-torn Lyari town in Karachi. They said that Pakistani counter-narcotics investigators believe the boat often carried contraband for the Balochistan-based drug cartel of Mir Yakub Bizenjo, a fugitive named by the US in 2009 as a leading player in the trans-border trade of narcotics.
                  Originally posted by commander View Post
                  Similar to that of 26/11. If they were indeed innocents why not prove their innocence then ?
                  Too early, ignore the hoax comment, go with the karachi investigators, but i would have thought we'd have something more concrete by now.

                  Originally posted by commander View Post
                  He said "evidence" is there that these guys were smugglers and there is no so called evidence from Pakistani's to validate this claim either.
                  In the sense that he has reason to suspect these were not terrorists as the govt leads us to believe. That the govt's line isn't consistent. Something is wrong with what the govt says.

                  Being alert is all well and good and is expected.

                  Blasts is an exaggeration :) Praveen is questioning the govts statement, no different to what's he's done with his articles.

                  You come from TN, fishermen and smugglers from Sri lanka as well as ours frequently stray into the others territory and are picked up. Same with pakistan. If these guys were fleeing then govt needs to clear up the matter.


                  Originally posted by commander View Post
                  Questioning is absolutely fine, but before going to streets with it and questioning the credibility of the government shouldn't have they waited for the government to release the proof and put pressure on them for that rather than first claiming that whatever the govt did was wrong and then asking them to release all the proofs. Don't you agree ?? That is what I have an disagreement with.
                  Sequencing ? This happened over a month and a half ago. Govt should have been able to set this matter to rest sooner isn't it. Why are we still waiting. The date of his Pak interview is Feb 19 2015. He did not go running there earlier.

                  More i think of this it strikes me as mismanagement. A cock up and CYA follows after. There is a name for this which i can't recall. <some name> law ?
                  Last edited by Double Edge; 23 Feb 15,, 18:28.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by commander View Post
                    When and where was this a PR event captn ? Defence Minister was very clear from the beginning that it could have been terrorists or could be smugglers.. but their actions tend to prove they were most likely terrorists. Moreover keeping the public in loop for such an incident will help the public know what has been done and gives them a confidence that yes we can prevent another possible 26/11 if not are better prepared. I honestly dont think this as a PR event. The media made it a huge PR event if you would ask me since anything Modi does is scrutinized for TRP even if it's of national security.

                    Anyway you know better in this and I would leave it at this and don't want to drag this anymore.
                    By PR event - I mean the tendency to show "see we are defending the nation better than UPA". These reports/ pictures only get released by the approval of the PMO, especially in the case of Modi since his PMO controls the functioning of all ministries.

                    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                      By PR event - I mean the tendency to show "see we are defending the nation better than UPA". These reports/ pictures only get released by the approval of the PMO, especially in the case of Modi since his PMO controls the functioning of all ministries.
                      Really?? You are saying that Modi through the PMO have such complete control over all of the ministries and government function to such an extend that it is micromanaging all decisions?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hahaha I was surprised that nobody linked it to modi yet. But it is now.:pop:
                        It is so. It cant be otherwise

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                          Really?? You are saying that Modi through the PMO have such complete control over all of the ministries and government function to such an extend that it is micromanaging all decisions?
                          What was the situation before ? nobody gave a damn about the PMO!

                          So this is a move to correct the situation. Now whether that extends to micromanaging things i don't know. Maybe if it can be shown that all this micro managing is leading to delays. Not heard anything in that regard.

                          But that is the impression being created and in serious fora. We see lots of that because the frame of reference was the previous un-authoritative PMO. Too much goes through the PMO that it can be a bottleneck and isn't efficient. Too much is going through the PMO because the ministries used to fight each other and this is a way to break the logjam.

                          Until things start breaking i don't see a problem.
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Feb 15,, 16:56.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            On jan 05 he says, quoting pak sources..
                            So he trusts Pakistani sources more than Indian one's ?? Really , well isnt the same Pakistani sources denied any involvement in 26/11 ?? Come on DE.

                            Too early, ignore the hoax comment, go with the karachi investigators, but i would have thought we'd have something more concrete by now.
                            Well, I have to say something shady happened, even Mr.Parrikar earlier said the possibilities of that being a terror boat is high since their activities doesn't resemble that of smugglers. This is immediately after the news broke out. But I too to a extent think this might have been something really big.

                            In the sense that he has reason to suspect these were not terrorists as the govt leads us to believe. That the govt's line isn't consistent. Something is wrong with what the govt says.
                            I mean how does he know for sure ?? Doesn't this undermine the credibility of Indian forces and god forbid in future any more of these attempts happen then the Pakistani media and govt will undermine our credibility again citing baseless theories like this.

                            You come from TN, fishermen and smugglers from Sri lanka as well as ours frequently stray into the others territory and are picked up. Same with pakistan. If these guys were fleeing then govt needs to clear up the matter.
                            Pakistan didn't even bother to even lodge a protest until some voices started to come up in India. Doesn't that sound bizarre ? for a country that denies every allegation coming from India within hours kept mum on this one and later scrambling to say it was drug smuggling boat etc ?? And also some smugglers from TN don't normally blow themselves up but they would rather throw their entire load into the ocean or throw the towel since they value their lives more than the load they carry and also they use the fishing routes and mask themselves as fishermen...

                            Sequencing ? This happened over a month and a half ago. Govt should have been able to set this matter to rest sooner isn't it. Why are we still waiting. The date of his Pak interview is Feb 19 2015. He did not go running there earlier.

                            More i think of this it strikes me as mismanagement. A cock up and CYA follows after. There is a name for this which i can't recall. <some name> law ?
                            A mismanagement ... yes. Anything more... NO.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                              By PR event - I mean the tendency to show "see we are defending the nation better than UPA". These reports/ pictures only get released by the approval of the PMO, especially in the case of Modi since his PMO controls the functioning of all ministries.
                              Captn, that's an unfair statement. The media blew it up for some sensation even when the Govt has not even confirmed that they were indeed terrorists. They only expressed that it could have been that because of the past and also of the warning that were sent earlier by IB and RAW for another such incident.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                So he trusts Pakistani sources more than Indian one's ?? Really , well isnt the same Pakistani sources denied any involvement in 26/11 ?? Come on DE.
                                First pak response was to deny there were even any Paks on the boat. They called it a hoax. Then they dug around some more and these Karachi investigators get into the picture.

                                The Indians never got to speak to anybody on the boat. So what Indian sources should he be using here ?

                                An investigative journalist isn't going to stop at that. If he's any good then he pokes around and tries to corroborate statements.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                Well, I have to say something shady happened, even Mr.Parrikar earlier said the possibilities of that being a terror boat is high since their activities doesn't resemble that of smugglers. This is immediately after the news broke out. But I too to a extent think this might have been something really big.
                                If there is something big then why aren't the intel guys backing the defense minster. I have not found anything official on this, praveen states that intelligence does not agree with NTRO.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                I mean how does he know for sure ?? Doesn't this undermine the credibility of Indian forces and god forbid in future any more of these attempts happen then the Pakistani media and govt will undermine our credibility again citing baseless theories like this.
                                If all it takes is one journalist to undermine our credibility with a baseless theory then we are in pretty bad shape (!)

                                One little guy taking a state to task, which was involved in the affair and has all the info about it. How hard would it be for the state to debunk what he is saying. It's not just him anymore, i posted the editorial from my newspaper. Are they as gullible too ?

                                That is why its important the govt comes across in an unambiguous way. As i said earlier this isn't something new, we pick up boats from the other sides and vice versa routinely. You mean to tell me this is the first time something like this has happened.

                                Can you imagine the noise if it was the other way around. We already got to find out with those two Italian marines. Became a diplomatic incident. And here we are saying, um, we can't tell you what happened cos um its classified (!). Shh, don't make too much noise.

                                That is what is undermining our credibility.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                Pakistan didn't even bother to even lodge a protest until some voices started to come up in India. Doesn't that sound bizarre ? for a country that denies every allegation coming from India within hours kept mum on this one and later scrambling to say it was drug smuggling boat etc ??
                                But Pakistan did deny it until some people in Karachi opened their big mouths. I got to think that is how our govt figured it would go down. Paks will say nothing, case closed. Then they got caught on the back foot.

                                If they screw up something as simple as this then what will they do when it matters more.

                                Parrikar's new at the job, we should cut him some slack ? doesn't work that way.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                And also some smugglers from TN don't normally blow themselves up but they would rather throw their entire load into the ocean or throw the towel since they value their lives more than the load they carry and also they use the fishing routes and mask themselves as fishermen...
                                Still does not explai why the boat caught on fire. This is why i said i wish the video showed the boat catching on fire. or maybe the cameras were not rolling then maybe it would be a good idea for them to video this sort of thing in the future. One clip and you silence any doubters.

                                Japanese posted clips of being rammed by Chinese boats. Clear as day for the world to see. We have a PM concur with the american president on south china sea hint hint laws of the sea etc.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                A mismanagement ... yes. Anything more... NO.
                                agreed, am not in a position to say more.
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Feb 15,, 00:13.

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