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Obama to normalize relations with Cuba

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  • #31
    Originally posted by zraver View Post
    Fighting and dying next to Germans in A-stan.... The biggest killer of Americans in combat in the last 100 years.
    Japan also sent non-combat troops to Iraq. Engineers I believe. The combat units who were providing security were.....Australians. Simply highlights what a bizarre anachronism this embargo is. Let hope Congress gets over its partisanship to do the right thing.
    sigpic

    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #32
      Ottawa will be protesting. We just lost 99% of our flights to Cuba!
      Chimo

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      • #33
        Originally posted by astralis View Post
        back to the topic, Marco Rubio is going batsh*t crazy over this, and finding out to his dismay that sanctions on Cuba aren't as politically popular as it used to be.
        How do you see the domestic politics of this? Are the Dems making a play for younger Cubans who are already leaning Dem? Do they think they can use it to make the GOP look isolated & out of touch? Will the optics of this help the Dems shore up the Hispanic vote, or is there unlikely to be an impact there? Will there be a side benefit in making Rubio look more like a loon?

        Obviously it will improve relations with the region and will have economic benefits. I suspect that this is one of those things where, once it is over, people will be amazed that anyone cared.
        sigpic

        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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        • #34
          The Castros will be more scared of the ending of the embargoes. American-Cubans will now be able to return with more money clout than they could ever imagine ... and no way to counter it. American-Cubans can buy mercernary armies bigger than what Cuba can field.
          Chimo

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
            How do you see the domestic politics of this? Are the Dems making a play for younger Cubans who are already leaning Dem? Do they think they can use it to make the GOP look isolated & out of touch? Will the optics of this help the Dems shore up the Hispanic vote, or is there unlikely to be an impact there? Will there be a side benefit in making Rubio look more like a loon?

            Obviously it will improve relations with the region and will have economic benefits. I suspect that this is one of those things where, once it is over, people will be amazed that anyone cared.
            the state holding the most ex pat cubans and a very very strong spanish speaking vote is florida - and florida is jeb bush country. considering that he is a republican who has a hispanic support base, then it buggers up a few other republicans with an opposing view
            Linkeden:
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            http://cofda.wordpress.com/

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Monash View Post
              I believe it would be a serious error of judgement to class China as an enemy at this point in history, a competitor yes but not necessarily as an enemy. This is because at the moment, here an now, this is not what they actually are. An enemy is usually defined something along the lines of someone feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or opposes another. Do the US and China hate each other? - one hopes not. Do they fear/distrust each other on certain issues - probably yes. However unless the default position of the US is that all serioius competitors for global economic influence and power must by default be enemies .
              When it comes to challenging our sea power- actively looking for ways to do so then yes they are enemies.

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              • #37
                Kamakazies are dangerous - once.
                Chimo

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  When it comes to challenging our sea power- actively looking for ways to do so then yes they are enemies.
                  Meanwhile the US Navy actively seeks tactics and technology that will counter their efforts and/or increase it's own ability to threaten Chinese sea power. Plus of course the balance of military power will have to shift enormously away from the US and towards China before they have any realistic chance of the defeating the US and all it's Asian allies. So there is some considerable time for both sides to work through deals that prevent a conflict, which lets face it is bad for business - theirs and ours.
                  Last edited by Monash; 19 Dec 14,, 23:23.
                  If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                  • #39
                    ultimately it can be boiled down to a phrase: china doesn't want to fight us, it wants to BE us.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                    • #40
                      How do you see the domestic politics of this? Are the Dems making a play for younger Cubans who are already leaning Dem? Do they think they can use it to make the GOP look isolated & out of touch? Will the optics of this help the Dems shore up the Hispanic vote, or is there unlikely to be an impact there? Will there be a side benefit in making Rubio look more like a loon?
                      all of the above, but i find it unlikely that it'll have a major impact. it just got to the point where doing so was no longer politically painful, and between the legacy/good policy, why not.

                      i find the political bloviating about how this will be a boost for Hillary Clinton to be exaggerated. it's a nice touch but this isn't something that will bring out the voters.
                      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                      • #41
                        Rubio is already having to walk back some of his comments. His comments about not approving an ambassador and funding an embassy are being nuanced.

                        Perhaps McConnell told him to calm it down.

                        While the the folks and descendants of the folks who came here in 1959-1961 are hardlined and bitter, the folks he came here since about 1970 onward are strongly pro this move.
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                          Rubio is already having to walk back some of his comments. His comments about not approving an ambassador and funding an embassy are being nuanced.

                          Perhaps McConnell told him to calm it down.
                          Will he eat his words about Obama being the worse negotiator?

                          While the the folks and descendants of the folks who came here in 1959-1961 are hardlined and bitter, the folks he came here since about 1970 onward are strongly pro this move.
                          Which tells me this is a generational thing. Out with the old, in with the new.

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                          • #43
                            Bigfella,

                            Politically, it's a risky move. The Dems won Florida in 2012 by less than a % point, but are slowly building momentmum. Taking any chance to piss off the Cuban community, with that small a margin, is a huge risk when we're talking about 27 electroal votes.

                            I don't think Obama undertook this to increase Democrat political standing. Presidents in their second term are generally more concerned about legacy building. A lot of the, erm, progressive left, which we all know Obama is part of even if he pretends he isn't, really finds the Cuba embargo obnoxious. They are the most engaged about the issue, except for the old Cuban emigres.

                            Anyways, the embargo on Cuba is a Cold War leftover, but the real oddity isn't that it still exists, but that it was getting STRONGER. Since the Cold War ended, we have imposed MORE sanctions on Cuba, even listing it as a State Sponsor of terror. This obviously is a dumb, politically-motivated move.
                            Last edited by GVChamp; 19 Dec 14,, 17:54.
                            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                              My have things changed. In the Pacific we are now allies with Japan and the enemy is China.
                              Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              Fighting and dying next to Germans in A-stan.... The biggest killer of Americans in combat in the last 100 years.
                              To this day I still find it just slightly somehow oddly sinister to see Iron Cross and the Rising Sun on F-4 Phantoms.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                                Rubio is already having to walk back some of his comments. His comments about not approving an ambassador and funding an embassy are being nuanced.

                                Perhaps McConnell told him to calm it down.

                                While the the folks and descendants of the folks who came here in 1959-1961 are hardlined and bitter, the folks he came here since about 1970 onward are strongly pro this move.
                                and those old Cubans are dying off steadily now

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