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Thread: 2014 Peshawar school attack: 141 Dead

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    then he brings in as a guest the (in)famous Hamid Gul, who stresses the importance of a "war about ideas" and the need to understand why the Taliban killed little children (because their own children were killed in drone attacks).
    This is something that the Western Press at least is missing. Normally under the Pashtunwali women and kids are off limits even in a blood feud. But Paksitani artillery strikes (not drones) have killed so many women and children that this likely got discarded. The Pashtunwali is very much an eye for an eye system and to not seek revenge in kind is a form of moral failure. To them it is good and right to kill kids in turn for their kids being killed. Shirt of some sort of Pashtun tribal leader emerging with the gravitas to bring the Taliban to the table (and being able to actually restrain them) and a commitment by the Pakistani government to pay the blood price peace is not possible.

    I don't think that leader exists and the GoP is not going to pay that blood price. This is going to be a generational conflict... Its not about Pakistan vs Afghanistan, its not about Islam or even Islam v West/US, its about Pashtun v Punjabi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    This is something that the Western Press at least is missing. Normally under the Pashtunwali women and kids are off limits even in a blood feud. But Paksitani artillery strikes (not drones) have killed so many women and children that this likely got discarded. The Pashtunwali is very much an eye for an eye system and to not seek revenge in kind is a form of moral failure. To them it is good and right to kill kids in turn for their kids being killed. Shirt of some sort of Pashtun tribal leader emerging with the gravitas to bring the Taliban to the table (and being able to actually restrain them) and a commitment by the Pakistani government to pay the blood price peace is not possible.
    There was a thread about Operation Zarb-e-Azb here, back when it started with a bang. At the time, when the images of devasted towns and villages came out, Captain LT and others had questioned the wisdom of using heavy artillery and air-strikes to level entire towns to fight what was essentially a COIN operation on your own soil. The pakistani members had defended those tactics back then, even as they were producing large numbers of refugees. Pretty sure they will still defend them even now.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    I don't think that leader exists and the GoP is not going to pay that blood price. This is going to be a generational conflict... Its not about Pakistan vs Afghanistan, its not about Islam or even Islam v West/US, its about Pashtun v Punjabi.
    Im not sure if its reached that point yet, but things look like they're moving that way. The attack on the Indo-Pak border crossing was certainly a symbolic assault on Punjab by one of the splinter factions of the former TTP. But for now, things largely seem to be a tribal Pashtuns vs urban Pashtuns thing, rather than a Pashtun vs Punjabi conflict.

    My impression is that much of the settled Pashtun population of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and northern Balochistan is integrated to quite an extent into the Punjabi dominated framework of Pakistan. They have their local concerns and some degree of sub/ethnic nationalism, but they still appear largely pro-Pakistan.

    Tribal Pashtuns OTHO appear to have no genuine loyalty to Pakistan as a state or even an idea and are definitely not integrated on the whole. Their loyalties seem to be to their tribe first, their common Pashtun heritage second, and their "guests" third. But nothing really after that. No wonder then, that tribal Pashtuns never take their "peace" treaties with Pakistan seriously (just like Pakistan doesnt take them seriously either), dont respect Pakistani laws, and those of them that have fled to far away cities have ghettoized themselves in places Karachi where they engage in segregation, extortian and ethnic conflict with Pakistanis. Even when living in urban Pakistan, their loyalties are still clearly tribal, then ethnic, but never to the state, apparently. This seems to be true also of the Baluchis.
    Last edited by 1980s; 17 Dec 14, at 22:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barangai View Post
    Well sir,you must have to understand this,We as the citizen of Pakistan-India are indeed close.But we must admit that both countries today are into proxy war including in Afghanistan.
    I am sorry but why should India admit to a proxy war in Afghanistan? If Pakistan is doing that and wants to come clean that is their issue

    Quote Originally Posted by barangai View Post
    I don't like this blame game and i also believe in action within our own house.As i believe as long as we don't accept the fact that the problem is within us,we won't overcome terrorism.
    I agree with this statement. But we still see Hafiz Saeed blaming India and calling for revenge. Also, here is something I would attract your attention to - known Talib sympathizer Hamid Gul and others are already trying to deflect the blame away from the Talibs and towards India/ Afghanistan. This is not going to help you punish the perps.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    There was a thread about Operation Zarb-e-Azb here, back when it started with a bang. At the time, when the images of devasted towns and villages came out, Captain LT and others had questioned the wisdom of using heavy artillery and air-strikes to level entire towns to fight what was essentially a COIN operation on your own soil. The pakistani members had defended those tactics back then, even as they were producing large numbers of refugees. Pretty sure they will still defend them even now.
    I second this. We have dealt with terrorism and insurgency, never had to use Artillery and air power on our own countrymen
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    Im not sure if its reached that point yet, but things look like they're moving that way.
    I think it has, too many dead Pashtun women and children, killed by Punjabi artillery... I think its now an ethnic blood feud. Similar to the Pashtun v everyone else in Afghanistan. It took a Loya jigra headed by the former Afghan King to (kind of) end that blood feud. There is no one in Pakistan with that kind of gravitas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Their barbarism knows no bounds.

    My deepest sympathies to the families of those who perished
    We are shocked and deeply saddened by this tragedy which has shaken the entire nation. This is madness and it must stop!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batista View Post
    What you give is what you get... that's the concept Pakistan would never learn.
    Indeed, what you give is what you get.
    Your time to learn will come too...eventually.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AENmYb6M1zw

    They cheered when innocents died in the similar attack in India in 26/11.
    Indians are rejoicing and celebrating the death of these kids on twitter, facebook, Indian fora and commenting in Pakistani newspapers. So please cut the I am holier than thou crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    160 kids. That's a lot of future Engineers, Doctors, Scientists, Agriculturists, Humanitarians, Billionaires murdered. I know the PA is capable, I just wish they put an end to all of these mindless killings.
    You are right, PA has been very successful in FATA with Operations Zarb e Azb and Khyber-1 and as the TTP stated, they killed the children to avenge the losses at their end.

    I hope we'll intensify these operations and launch new ones to clean up Peshawar, Quetta and Karachi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Can we please stop with the finger-pointing and scoring brownie points out of a sad incident? For fucks sake, 160 KIDS have been killed. How can some of you be so insensitive? Pathetic and retarded.
    Thank you, I was just about to say something simmilar. Some people never grow up. They are all over the electrinic media promoting their own agenda. Shame on these pathetic hatemongers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    Which Taliban are you referring too,... the Haqqanis, the TTP or the Mullah Omar faction?
    - Mullah Omar's group is still used as PA proxies in Afghanistan
    - Haqqani's have more or tell gone against the PA and we all know about the TTP.
    All of them are being targeted in Waziristan including the Haqqanis by PA as well as by US drones. Their IED making infrastructure is mainly located there and most of it is gone hence we haven't seen a major attack of months.

    The day after the carnage Coas Raheel Shareef went to Kabul. This clearly means where the support is coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barangai View Post
    COAS Raheel Sharif has left for Afghanistan.

    Well now its all upto Dr Ashraf Ghani govt,either he will have to be sincere and give up NDS activities or admit that he has no hold over NDS activities.

    Together we can defeat the talibs on either side of the border,and Dr Ashraf Ghani is honest but is Abdullah x2 also?will they have control over the NDS activities?is a big question
    Ghani is our man in Kabul, more so than Abdullah
    Abdullah but both of them want peace in Afghanistan and so do we. Unlike Karzai, Abdullah is not a castrated foreign supported puppet but he is a nationalist and a war lord. He understands the ground realities and will be cooperative with us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    So you have already decided that this was all masterminded by the NDS? Probably the Indian hand is also lurking behind?

    I can see Raheel Sharif asking for cooperation but this instant fault assi

    For heaven's sake, 132 kids are dead and a group of bastards have claimed responsibility. Is it not important to go after them rather than searching for the foreign hand?
    TTP's domestic infrastructure is destroyed and it!s leadership is roaming freely in Afghanistan. Obviously we have to look on both sides.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post

    Indians are rejoicing and celebrating the death of these kids on twitter, facebook, Indian fora and commenting in Pakistani newspapers. So please cut the I am holier than thou crap.
    Your sense of victimhood knows no bounds. Nearly all Indians I know in real life, social media, wherever, is shocked and outrage, especially since this is against kids.

    ONE out of all my acquaintances said something about Karma, and everyone else I know (yes, those dirty bania hindoo bharatiyas, who apparently are 1/10th of pakistanis) promptly blasted him. India, for the most part, is shocked and outraged, and a little bit scared. Indian school children across the country shed tears for their brethren across the border. Yes, there might be weirdos here and there who are feeling smug. But as far and wide as I have seen, they are a very, very small minority. But you see what you want to see.

    I can imagine what your country's reaction would be to a terrorist attack in India, so you imagine everyone else would also be overjoyed at the loss of civilian life.

    Sorry to say, but your sense of outrage is false, as even in this tragedy sections of your society are finding ways to actually shift the blame away from the Taliban and onto "foreign hands".
    Last edited by antimony; 18 Dec 14, at 19:49.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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