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2014 Peshawar school attack: 141 Dead

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  • 21+7+5 more militants killed in recent offensive.

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    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
      Pashtunwali

      Ghairat (manliness)

      Defense of property, person and tribe- Nanga
      Kindness/hospitality- melmastia
      Boldness- Tura
      Bravery-Turah (might be same word as boldness)
      Revenge- Badal
      Shaming the enemy- Sharm

      Its an ethnic war, even if the illiterate think its about Islam, its not, its about the pashtunwali or what might be called tribal Islam.
      Pashtunwali is not related to Islam.infact on ocassion pashtun swear more on pashtunwali than even Islam/Quran.Very rare atleast i have not seen now but earlier when i was a kid i remember the local blood feuds were resolved without involvement of Islam.today they are only solved by Islam.infact prior to the talibization of pashtuns,they were more secular than the other ethnicity of Pakistan or the region or such as Baloch today

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      • Originally posted by barangai View Post
        Pashtunwali is not related to Islam.infact on ocassion pashtun swear more on pashtunwali than even Islam/Quran.Very rare atleast i have not seen now but earlier when i was a kid i remember the local blood feuds were resolved without involvement of Islam.today they are only solved by Islam.infact prior to the talibization of pashtuns,they were more secular than the other ethnicity of Pakistan or the region or such as Baloch today
        Don't get lost in the term Tribal Islam (which BTW was coined by a Pakistani Dr. Akbar Ahmed). But you are right, Islam is taking on an increasingly central position in Pakistan as a whole and in the tribes, though in the tribes what is called islamic law is often anti-islamic but pro-tribal custom. The Pashtunwali isn't the only example of this, but it is the example that matters when we are talking about Pakistan.

        Unless Paksitan is willing to fight a battle with a WWII level of destruction and economic ruin you are not going to break the Pashtuns. You might force them over the border into Afghanistan, but they will be back. You only other option is to appease them, but as you've already discovered appeasement doesn't buy peace, it just rents it for a awhile.And unlike America, you can't just pull out and leave- but you'll wish you could.

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        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          Don't get lost in the term Tribal Islam (which BTW was coined by a Pakistani Dr. Akbar Ahmed). But you are right, Islam is taking on an increasingly central position in Pakistan as a whole and in the tribes, though in the tribes what is called islamic law is often anti-islamic but pro-tribal custom. The Pashtunwali isn't the only example of this, but it is the example that matters when we are talking about Pakistan.

          Unless Paksitan is willing to fight a battle with a WWII level of destruction and economic ruin you are not going to break the Pashtuns. You might force them over the border into Afghanistan, but they will be back. You only other option is to appease them, but as you've already discovered appeasement doesn't buy peace, it just rents it for a awhile.And unlike America, you can't just pull out and leave- but you'll wish you could.
          Sir,i am pashtun myself from baka khel and i am well aware of the ground realities.i don't want to argue further whether this is a pashtun vs punjabi or else as only the passage of time will prove that i was right

          We are all united against talibs.Sir i might sound optimistic to you but we are at the edge of defeating talibs and talibanism.

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          • Originally posted by zraver View Post
            Islam is taking on an increasingly central position in Pakistan as a whole and in the tribes
            Because the Pak state is losing ground in enforcing its writ. It does not have the resources. More state building is required for Pakistan. More moderate pakistanis need to get into debates with the hardliners to counter their claims. The victory of AQ is to conflate local grievances into some pan islamic cause. The terroists want to portray the Pak state as proxies for the infidels.

            Who is the enemy, why are we fighting and how to fight are questions without clear answers. Will the people support the army at this time to do that.

            There is always this constant tension between using force and settlements. Everybody wants to settle from a position of strength.

            Take zarb e azab, the state just suddenly decided to move after the karachi airport incident, they could have moved at any other time so that was arbitrary.

            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            Unless Paksitan is willing to fight a battle with a WWII level of destruction and economic ruin you are not going to break the Pashtuns. You might force them over the border into Afghanistan, but they will be back. You only other option is to appease them, but as you've already discovered appeasement doesn't buy peace, it just rents it for a awhile.And unlike America, you can't just pull out and leave- but you'll wish you could.
            Pakistan will bear the brunt of instability in afghanistan, they have to make some hard choices and the result of those choices is you're going to see more kids get killed. That it happened at all signals that the PA was doing 'something'.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Dec 14,, 00:16.

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            • Originally posted by barangai View Post
              I don't want to mix up things,but sir even Colonel Purohit is still alive in Jail and not hanged.
              There is a lot that we need to find out from Purohit, unfortunately the ATS chief who had made a break through in those cases died in 26/11 incident. If we hang him now then many on the hidden suspects will get away scot free.

              Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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              • Originally posted by barangai View Post
                Sir,unlike USSR,UK or USA,we are not foreign to them.We know how to fight them.Infact many of them fighting today are the pashtuns.
                You are forgetting that the Fakir of Ipi, started his "jihad" against the British and fought the PA till 1955 when he died. They will not be defeated so easily.

                Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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                • Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                  You are forgetting that the Fakir of Ipi, started his "jihad" against the British and fought the PA till 1955 when he died. They will not be defeated so easily.
                  I know and to tell you that people in my family fought for him and uncle of my mother died fighting for him.His Grandson Hafiz Gul bahadur is not upto his standard.

                  One of his descendant (i am not sure whether from son or daughter) was my brother classmate in Cadet college razmak and my senior.

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                  • Looks like the government is still confused on how to deal with terrorism.

                    ISLAMABAD: Adviser to the Prime Minister on National Security and Foreign Affairs, Sartaj Aziz on Monday said that Pakistan should not target militants who do not threaten the country’s security.

                    “Why should America’s enemies unnecessarily become our enemies,” Sartaj Aziz said during an interview with BBC Urdu.

                    "When the United States attacked Afghanistan, all those that were trained and armed were pushed towards us.

                    “Some of them were dangerous for us and some are not. Why must we make enemies out of them all?,” he said when speaking about the Haqqani Network.

                    He further said that the Afghan Taliban are Afghanistan’s problem and Haqqani Network is a part of it.

                    “It’s the job of the Afghan government to negotiate with them...We can try to convince them, however things are not the same as they were in the nineties,” Aziz said.
                    Militants not dangerous to Pakistan should not be targeted: Sartaj - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

                    But there has been a sort of retraction from the foreign office itself.

                    “As for [the] present, Pakistan has launched operation Zarb-i-Azb and taking action against all groups without any distinction or discrimination,” Tasneem Aslam, foreign office spokesperson, said in a statement.

                    She added that Sartaj Aziz's interview with BBC's Urdu service has created confusion in the official stance of the country. Pakistan’s policy and actions should be seen in the light of its commitment in fighting terrorism in all forms and manifestations, she added.
                    Sartaj Aziz statement on militant groups taken out of context: FO - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

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                    • I must admit that,Dr Ashraf Ghani is perhaps not the best for Afghanistan but perhaps the best president in the region.He's honest and doesn't want to play double games at the hand of other neighbours such as India.

                      I hope that we will also help Afghanistan in eliminating Haqqani Group and to lead a peace deal with Quetta shura as Dr Ashraf Ghani has wished for

                      Afghan forces launch operation in areas bordering Pakistan

                      ASADABAD: Afghan security forces have launched an operation against militants in an eastern province seen as a rear base for the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) which carried out the Peshawar school massacre last week, officials said Monday.

                      COAS Gen Raheel Sharif met Afghan President Ashraf Ghani in Kabul in the aftermath of the school attack in Peshawar which killed 149 people, mainly children.

                      “Afghan security forces have launched a joint anti-militant operations in several parts of Dangam district of Kunar province,” Dawlat Waziri, deputy defence ministry spokesman, told AFP.

                      “So far in the operation, 21 armed insurgents have been killed and 33 others wounded,” Waziri said, adding that seven security personnel were wounded.

                      Kunar governor Shujaul Mulk Jalala said more than 1,500 Afghan Taliban fighters attacked remote villages in Dangam.

                      Jalala said TTP and Lashkar-e-Taiba militants were also battling Afghan security forces in Dangam.
                      http://www.dawn.com/news/1152477/afg...ering-pakistan

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                      • TTP confirms death of 120 Militants killed since the attack on the school but as per my calculation,the total militants killed since than is 258(across pakistan) and 23 Arrested excluding the 300 arrests from Islamabad

                        He said 120 of his men were killed in past 2 days but media was ignoring them
                        TTP threatened to target Media in Pakistan, 2nd Zarb-i-Azab will kick off - Khaama Press (KP) | Afghan News Agency

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                        • Well the Afghan source's does confirm the presence of Let in Afghan territory.I don't know what they are doing in Afghanistan and surprisingly india has never raised this issue with Afghanistan

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                          • Originally posted by barangai View Post
                            Well the Afghan source's does confirm the presence of Let in Afghan territory.I don't know what they are doing in Afghanistan and surprisingly india has never raised this issue with Afghanistan
                            What else do you think LeT will be doing in a foreign country but to spread Pakistani state sponsored terrorism.

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                            • Originally posted by notorious_eagle View Post
                              Gloves are off

                              The is the first time that PA has released pictures of dead TTP terrorists and footages of heavy shelling. TTP signed its own death warrant, they have lost all the sympathy they had among the Pakistani populace.
                              Am wondering why the PA did this as its std recruiting propaganda for the other side.

                              See what israel is doing, see what US is doing ,now see what PA is doing.

                              Originally posted by barangai View Post
                              I must admit that,Dr Ashraf Ghani is perhaps not the best for Afghanistan but perhaps the best president in the region.He's honest and doesn't want to play double games at the hand of other neighbours such as India.

                              I hope that we will also help Afghanistan in eliminating Haqqani Group and to lead a peace deal with Quetta shura as Dr Ashraf Ghani has wished for
                              Ghani's biggest fight will be against Afghan corruption. Taliban is secondary. With corruption there might not even be bullets in the guns paid for or no guns in the hands of soldiers who are getting paid on the books but not actually receiving the pay. This is how Da'ish took over Iraq.
                              Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Dec 14,, 23:54.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by barangai View Post
                                Well the Afghan source's does confirm the presence of Let in Afghan territory.I don't know what they are doing in Afghanistan and surprisingly india has never raised this issue with Afghanistan
                                The LeT work under command of the ISI/PA, whatever they do in Afghanistan or India is at their behest. Why else would Hafiz Saeed and Lakhvi be getting kid glove treatment in Pakistan!

                                Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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