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RSS 're-converts' 200 Agra Muslims, says more in line

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  • Originally posted by antimony View Post
    None of that is relevant as factually, Owaisi is parroting whatever is in his scriptures
    If whatever Owaisi is blabbering is factually true, in that acc. to the Quran, everyone is born a Muslim and later converts to other faiths, then aren't all non-Muslims actually apostates who should be punished by death?

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    • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
      If whatever Owaisi is blabbering is factually true, in that acc. to the Quran, everyone is born a Muslim and later converts to other faiths, then aren't all non-Muslims actually apostates who should be punished by death?
      I would agree. Actually I would like to see Owaisi squirm out of that. The theological gymnastics alone would be thoroughly entertainting

      This is actually right up there with such stupid beliefs that say that all children are born with the original sin and unbaptised infants got to Limbo (limbus infantium or limbus puerorum).

      Such displays of religious ridiculousness is staggering when you actually look at what all religious scriptures say.
      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

      Comment


      • Originally posted by commander View Post
        Ofcourse media is a component of a civil society. I agree with you on it but only when it doesn't become a propaganda tool or it will never have the balls to do real journalism and will show only one side of the story even if it's factually moronic or wrong. Now tell me this, a week of barking and whining on something said by a Sakshi maharaj (i don't agree with his viewpoints though) against a one hour or 30 mins blabbering against the likes of Owaisi's ? The only guy whether I like it or not atleast did the shouting and called him communal was Arnab and the so called liberal media you have quoted has resorted to this,

        Yes we Khan

        :whome: couldn't find a bigger picture but you can see all she is trying to do.

        [ATTACH]38896[/ATTACH]
        I follow political debates on all channels closely, not just Newshour. The NDTV gang spoke to Owaisi in exactly the same tones they speak to Sakshi Maharaj in. They equated the Sangh Parivar and the Owaisi's, to which I agree. Arnab shouts at just about everyone. He would do a better job if he lets his guests speak. They usually trip themselves up without his help.

        Originally posted by commander View Post
        Oh come on AM, even you know that's BS. Islam is an abrahamic religion and unlike dharmic based Hinduism has no concept of co existence.
        Of course they have no concept of co-existence. Does not have anything to do with some one parroting their scriptures. Again, from a strict technical sense, Owaisi is right that Islam has this particular teaching. Islamic scholars also believe that Islam is a way of life. This is not restricted to Islam. Most religious scholars believe or say that their chosen way is a "way of life"

        Originally posted by commander View Post
        Is he correct or incorrect is the questions and IMO he is a 100% correct.
        If you believe that Mediacrooks is correct then may I recommend a nice tinfoil hat?
        Last edited by antimony; 08 Jan 15,, 21:26.
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

        Comment


        • In previous posts, Captain LT and others posited that the BJP government was unconcerned about economic reforms and development and only concerned with unimportant stuff like these conversions and other things they listed. Here is what is actually happening post the Agra-conversion hoopla.

          Insurance, coal ordinances: Why the Opp is playing dog in the manger

          The Modi government’s decision to push through the insurance and coal mine auction bills through ordinances rather than wait for parliament to resume for the budget session has been criticised by opposition parties – especially the Left, the Trinamool Congress and the Congress itself.

          Experts are clear that there is absolutely nothing wrong with issuing ordinances once parliament is adjourned. As senior counsel Harish Salve told The Economic Times, “This is absolutely the right thing to do. These are not bills that have been rejected by the House. In that case, it would have been an abuse of the Constitution.”

          However, this has not stopped representatives of the opposition parties from slamming the proposed ordinances as “unethical” and undemocratic. While the Congress railed against the NDA’s “ordinance raj”, Derek O’Brien of the Trinamool Congress and Sitaram Yechury of the CPI(M) saw the ordinances as attempts to bypass the democratic process and “imposing an authoritarian manner of parliamentary functioning.”

          This is a bit rich, for the fact is these bills could not even be presented in the Rajya Sabha given the opposition’s “democratic” disruption. So, to pretend that issuing an ordinance is somehow wrong or authoritarian will fool no one, for the fact is these bills will anyway have to come back to the Rajya Sabha for passing.

          The question then is: why didn’t the opposition use its majority to defeat these bills rather than just obstruct the business of the Rajya Sabha by bringing in all kinds of extraneous issues? It is tempting to believe that a Sadhvi’s remarks or someone’s opinions of Godse or the Sangh’s “conversion” agenda were the key cause of disruptions. The fact is even before these Sangh-based issues cropped up, the Rajya Sabha was disrupted for other reasons: Modi’s failure to bring back black money, the use of the CBI against political opponents, etc.

          This shows that the opposition’s real agenda was to find excuses to block the introduction and discussion of bills, and not necessarily to raise issues of concern.

          To understand the nature of the opposition’s double-speak, we should go back to Salve’s statement above, where he pointed out that ordinances would be wrong only if these bills had been rejected by the house. Why didn’t the opposition not reject these bills so that no ordinances could be issued?

          Answer: that wouldn’t have worked for them.

          The real reason why the opposition preferred disruption to discussion was to ensure that the Modi government’s key bills were neither passed nor rejected. If they were passed, they would have been seen as a feather in Modi’s cap, which neither the Congress nor the other detractors want. But they don’t want the bills to be rejected by the house either, as this would enable the government to call a joint session of parliament to end the deadlock. In a joint session, the NDA government holds the edge and the Lok Sabha speaker presides over it. So no chance of disruption.

          In the Rajya Sabha, the BJP/NDA position is just about 60-and-odd members in a current house strength of 243 ( including 10 members nominated by the previous UPA government). The BJP itself has 45 members and the Congress 69.

          However, the real situation for the BJP is not as bad if you add up the numbers of the neutral parties like the AIADMK (11), BJD (7), NCP (6), etc. The BJP’s potential numbers then go up to a range of 85-90 – especially after adding up some single member parties (see the Rajya Sabha party numbers here to make your own calculations).

          After this, there are parties that usually position themselves against the BJP, but which may sometimes support and, at other times, be persuaded to opt for strategic walkouts to enable the government to pass its bills. These parties could include the Samajwadi Party (15), the DMK (4), the BSP (10), and even the Congress. The nominated members could also, on occasion, vote with the government. One does not expect the likes of Anu Aga (of Thermax) or Sachin Tendulkar to be voting purely along party lines on an insurance bill or coal blocks.

          This reality is what the disruptionists are afraid of.

          The key disruptionist parties – mainly the Trinamool, the Left, the Janata Dal (United), the RJD, and, to a lesser extent, the JD(S) and the INLD - are disruptionist because they know that many legislations can be passed by the Rajya Sabha even with the government’s low official numbers. The Congress knows this, which is why it allows these parties to disrupt, and then plead that it is not responsible even for the bills it supports when the government can’t ensure order in the house – a necessary condition for passing bills.

          The disruption is thus a tactic to enable a very small minority of members to cock-a-snook at the BJP and trip it on legislation. It is about denying the BJP a politico-economic gain, rather than about anything they really believe in.

          As for actually rejecting a bill, the disruptionists know that the government has the numbers to pass any bill in a joint session of parliament. That is something they want even less. With over 330 NDA Lok Sabha MPs, and with more than 70-80 MPs on its side in the Rajya Sabha, a joint LS-RS session will arm the BJP with more than 400 MPs at least in a 788-member joint session

          One cannot be sure that these disruptionists will see reason even in the budget season. The government will thus have to try and get the chair to either remove disruptive members from the house, or force a vote in the Rajya Sabha on these bills so that they can either be defeated or passed.

          The government has to defeat the disruptionists’ strategy of neither passing nor rejecting its bills.
          There is a host of other reforms including the all important amendments to the Land Acquisition bill, changes to the non-coal mining act, etc. which the government also is going to introduce as ordinances rather than legilation. So who exactly is trying to stall development here whilst being pre-occupied with conversions and remarks by Sadhvis?

          EDIT: All this sounds like small stuff, but has a deep impact on core-sector growth. The artificial coal shortfall for instance has been hurting us for quite some time. I was also mistaken a bit about the Land Acquisition Ordinance. The government already issued it. Good going. The government has also agreed to a deal with the states about GST. Another biggie. Add to this the overall improvement in getting fast clearances from the government for industrial projects. The previous morass at the Environment and other ministries which was stifling industrial growth simply by not clearing files has been removed. So it's not as if the government is sitting still doing nothing. They are in fact doing what they promised.

          Another "small" thing that flies below radar and leads people to say Modi is interested only in Religious tomfoolery and not development:
          BlackRock Is Optimistic About India's Road Building Efforts

          India’s cash-strapped road builders may be recovering from a slump as project executions gather pace through Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s efforts to cut red tape and revive stalled plans, according to BlackRock Inc.

          Work has already started on 75 percent of the 16 road projects the previous government awarded in the 12 months through March 2014, versus 10 percent and 18 percent in the prior two years, CRISIL Ltd. (CRISIL), the Indian unit of Standard & Poor’s, said in a research note last month.
          ...
          Better roads are also crucial for Modi’s 1.48 trillion rupee ($23 billion) pledge to unclog the nation’s choked infrastructure, which is ranked in quality below Namibia and Guatemala.

          {This is where the Land Acquisition Ordinance comes in}
          Land, Regulations

          More than 1 trillion rupees of projects have been stalled due to land issues or regulatory delays, including 600 billion rupees of roads, 20 new coal mines proposed by state-run Coal India Ltd. (COAL) and steel mills by ArcelorMittal and Jindal Steel & Power Ltd. (JSP)

          ...

          Modi increased taxes on petrol and diesel fuels by two rupees a liter from Jan. 2 to finance the construction of 15,000 kilometers (9,322 miles) of roads by March, 2016. His budget on July 10 allocated 523 billion rupees to build roads and 500 billion rupees for urban infrastructure.

          ...

          The government had expedited environmental clearances for as many as 298 projects in mining to construction between May and August.

          Delinking of forest and environmental clearances, ensuring at least 80 percent of the land is in government possession before awarding contracts and faster approvals have helped speedier execution, said Crisil’s Prithiani

          Of the 16 road projects awarded in the year to March 2014, work has begun on 12 and some have progressed as much as 50 percent, according to Crisil.

          “Such momentum is unparalleled and stands in sharp contrast to the imbroglio seen in the last couple of years,” Crisil said in its note.

          This is not OT. I'm merely replying to unfounded allegations made earlier.
          Last edited by Firestorm; 09 Jan 15,, 02:29.

          Comment


          • The artificial coal shortfall for instance has been hurting us for quite some time.
            This is due t a lot of things but a judge deciding to cancel all coal allocations since 1993 (!) makes it very urgent. The court gave the govt 6 months to sort it out. I think the lights just might stay on as a result of these ordinances.

            Modi increased taxes on petrol and diesel fuels by two rupees a liter from Jan. 2 to finance the construction of 15,000 kilometers (9,322 miles) of roads by March, 2016. His budget on July 10 allocated 523 billion rupees to build roads and 500 billion rupees for urban infrastructure.
            Don't know how people are reacting to the increase but its a good thing. $50 a barrel for oil is a major windfall. If it stays like that for at least a year, the estimate is $1 trillion will be redistributed from oil producer to oil consumer worldwide. This has to be good for consumption. Don't know how much we will see but US, Japan & to a lesser extent the EU will benefit.

            Otherwise prices will catch up eventually and cause a shock. So the govt will pocket the difference and keep prices stable.

            The government already issued it. Good going. The government has also agreed to a deal with the states about GST.
            Huge, GST is India having an FTA with itself. I understand we have 26 FTA's with various blocs or countries either in the works or active. High time we did it.

            I don't know how much of a problem keeping liquor & fuel out of it (conditions set by states for acceptance) will be though.

            Experts are clear that there is absolutely nothing wrong with issuing ordinances once parliament is adjourned. As senior counsel Harish Salve told The Economic Times, “This is absolutely the right thing to do. These are not bills that have been rejected by the House. In that case, it would have been an abuse of the Constitution.”
            Nothing wrong with ordinances, if Modi wants a statement of intent then this will do for the time being. Its just less convincing to investors overseas, they prefer the certainty of a bill, passed, signed & delivered.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Jan 15,, 06:50.

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            • I believe all this hoopla of blocking RS will only be till Delhi elections. Congress wants to test the waters to see if it can cause some damage to Modi's image. But I am hopeful BJP will come to power. Also I heard this interesting concept (new to me)if the ordinances are passed in LS and is getting blocked continuously in RS then after 6 months (not sure on this time line) Modi can call for a joint session and pass the ordinances as law there. Passing it LS will be a cakewalk and will be okay okay in joint session.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cactus View Post
                It has been going on for a few thousand years...



                ... I can't see why it will stop any time soon.

                Good find. That sums it all. Fortunately It wasn't a violent regime change but vote worked. Ironically the so called custodians of democracy were cursing the voters, called them bigots and communal, few even floated the Idea of bringing new election system so that the majority doesn't wins, cried their ass off by calling it Majoritarianism.
                Last edited by ambidex; 28 Jan 15,, 12:10.

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                • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                  1) because you have similar posting styles & prejudices;
                  I never compared you with any other poster good or bad. Moderators never called you out for your issuing certificates and personally attacking other members and doing that kind of moronic comparisons.

                  2) Pavlov
                  Tom Dick and Harry..Blah blah blah...

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