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  • Million Dollar Baby

    We know the cost of health care is high, but this example seems off the charts...is it a rip off?


    Million dollar baby: New parents from Canada shocked by huge U.S. hospital bill
    A. Pawlowski TODAY contributor

    A Canadian woman who unexpectedly went into labor while on vacation in the U.S. is protesting an almost $1 million bill for her and her baby’s hospital stay.

    Jennifer Huculak and her husband Darren Kimmel, both of Humboldt, Saskatchewan, bought travel health insurance to be safe — but then their claim was denied.

    “We were mortified,” Kimmel told TODAY Parents about the moment the couple found out about the huge bill.

    Huculak was 24 weeks pregnant when she and Kimmel flew to Hawaii in October 2013. She was cleared to travel by her doctor and the couple bought a travel insurance package for their trip through Saskatchewan Blue Cross, Kimmel said. (In Canada, health-care costs like prenatal care, labor and delivery are all covered through universal health care provided by the federal government.)

    “Jennifer looked this lady in the eye and said, ‘So I’m covered?’ And this lady looked at her and said, ‘Yes, you’re covered. Have a good holiday.’ And the holiday turned into a staycation,” Kimmel told TODAY Parents.

    Huculak’s water suddenly broke two days into the vacation. She was put on bed rest in a Honolulu hospital for six weeks, and gave birth to her daughter Reece on Dec. 10. The premature baby girl spent two months in the neonatal intensive care unit.

    The combined bill for Huculak’s and the baby’s care was more than $900,000, Kimmel said. Then, the couple found out their insurance company was denying the claim, citing a pre-existing condition.

    The Saskatchewan Blue Cross did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

    Huculak had a bladder infection a month before the trip to Hawaii, but her doctor in Canada and the doctors who treated Huculak in Honolulu said it wouldn’t have caused her water to break, Kimmel said.

    She was also stuck in Hawaii as there was no way to travel back to Canada while she was on bed rest, he added.

    “Had we taken the chance to fly out on a commercial flight and something happened over the sea, there was a chance Jennifer could have passed and we’d have lost the baby,” Kimmel said. “I’m positive it’s not a chance anybody would ever be willing to take.”

    The Saskatchewan government and the state of Hawaii picked up a portion of the bill, but about $900,000 still remains. Much of it is past due and some of it has been sent to collections, he noted.

    “Every day is an adventure here,” Kimmel said. “We don’t know what happens now.”

    The couple has gone public hoping their insurance company will reverse course. They’ve been amazed by the public reaction to their story, with some people offering to donate money.

    Meanwhile, their baby girl is doing fine almost one year after her traumatic delivery. She’s “very healthy, she’s a little rascal,” Kimmel said.
    Canadian mom who gives birth in Hawaii gets near-$1 million bill - Parents - TODAY.com
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  • #2
    "Bed rest in a Honolulu hospital for six weeks, birth and two more months in the neonatal intensive care unit."

    That's approximately 98 days of pretty intensive medical attention. I can't imagine that's inexpensive regardless of where you live.

    Naturally the headlines make it sound like a simple delivery cost $1 million all by itself.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • #3
      Not surprising.

      Average cost of ONE night of hospital stay at a trauma level hospital is.... guess what....drumroll.... $10,000.00 I represented a client who got seriously hurt in a car accident, partly his own fault. He spent 10 days in the hospital. His fees from the hospital alone was over $100k. That is not even including the fees from the doctors that visited him and treated him. After last tally, his total fees were close to $200k for a broken arm and separated shoulder and he still needed surgery. Only problem was that the surgery he needed was considered elective not emergency or life-threatening but his shoulder wasn't healing properly and he couldn't work and he didn't qualify for disability benefits. I helped him out by managing to get a settlement fee from the ins co representing the other car and negotiating all the medical fees down to $35k and leaving him enough money to buy an airplane ticket for him to go back to his native country, Costa Rica, and get cheap healthcare, i.e., surgery, for $1,000.00. He got the surgery and fixed his shoulder, thus allowing him to go back to work.

      He was so happy that he cooked me a nice homemade meal dish from Costa Rica. Don't know what it was but it was sure tasty.
      Last edited by Blademaster; 20 Nov 14,, 16:54.

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      • #4
        98 days and $1 million+. I'm sorry, but the system is seriously screwed. A friend's friend lost his job a year back. He is a great drinker, and as depressed he was for not finding a suitable job (in terms of pay-cheque), he took to drinking heavily. Initially he felt a lot of pain in his stomach, and got himself admitted, his wife being away at her parent's house. Liver and Kidneys seriously damaged. It cost him the best doctors in one of the most critically acclaimed hospital in Bangalore INR 40K = $646.00 /day. He was there for 48 days, under observation. Total cost = 48*$646 = $ 31K approximately + some extra costs.

        The big corps, the Doctors are all in cahoots and have made this noble profession all about money. A client of mine as early as 2004 was doing business of $800 million, today they are over $ 120 billion. Wonder why the jump in profits are so huge. Insurance & Healthcare companies, they are 2 sides of the same abusive coin.
        Last edited by Oracle; 20 Nov 14,, 17:46. Reason: Added a line.
        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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        • #5
          This is a good illustration of why I'm not convinced the free market approach works very well for hospitals. The hospital a person chooses to go to is generally based on proximity in the time of need, not a rational analysis of who offers the best service at the best rates.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            The big corps, the Doctors are all in cahoots and have made this noble profession all about money. A client of mine as early as 2004 was doing business of $800 million, today they are over $ 120 billion. Wonder why the jump in profits are so huge. Insurance & Healthcare companies, they are 2 sides of the same abusive coin.
            As an aspiring medical student I'd argue not lumping in doctors in the blame for the US broken system of health care. The issues with medical costs going through the roof don't come from any sort of greed from physicians (in fact we've seen physician salaries relative to cost of schooling steadily decline over time), and from experience tend to be among the biggest cynics of the system over everyone else. I've seen way to many cases where doctors borderline lost their temper on the phone with insurance reps and with admin staff because they couldn't go through with treatment of a patient due to cost overdrafts.
            "Draft beer, not people."

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            • #7
              Hospitals have two tiers of charges. There's a rate book called the Chargemaster most of them use which lists astronomical charges for every procedure down to administering an aspirin. It's applied when the patient has no insurance or is not eligible for Medicare, which is the case with foreigners. For those who have insurance or gov't coverage, there is another, much lower rate set by the insurers or the government. So in practice, large, full-rate bills like the lady from Canada got would have been whittled down by as much as 80% if she had been a US citizen covered by a US insurer or Medicare. Her cost would have been limited to a deductable of around $5k and maybe some co-pays.

              Case in point: My son had no insurance--this was just before Obamacare--when he went to the emergency room at our local hospital complaining of chest pains. He passed out at the receptionist desk and awoke in intensive care where he stayed for 3 days. It turns out he had an inflammation of the heart muscles (forgot the name of the condition). In any case, he was discharged with a $27,000 hospital bill and a separate physician's bill of around $800. Since he had no insurance and had no income at the time, the hospital wrote off his bill and applied to state Medicare for reimbursement. I doubt the hospital ever got the full $27,000. Had he been an uninsured foreigner or had the means to pay, more likely than not the hospital would have pursued full payment.
              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                This is a good illustration of why I'm not convinced the free market approach works very well for hospitals. The hospital a person chooses to go to is generally based on proximity in the time of need, not a rational analysis of who offers the best service at the best rates.
                The market is not free.

                Health care field is heavily regulated by federal and state government.

                This is the same thing with the banking industry. The heavy, incorrect regulations caused the financial crisis. Not free market.
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                  As an aspiring medical student I'd argue not lumping in doctors in the blame for the US broken system of health care. The issues with medical costs going through the roof don't come from any sort of greed from physicians (in fact we've seen physician salaries relative to cost of schooling steadily decline over time), and from experience tend to be among the biggest cynics of the system over everyone else. I've seen way to many cases where doctors borderline lost their temper on the phone with insurance reps and with admin staff because they couldn't go through with treatment of a patient due to cost overdrafts.
                  You're correct. Don't get disheartened by a small number of unprofessional in the healthcare industry. Happens everywhere.

                  I agree with what gunnut has said, as also the Admins of the Hospitals who are mostly responsible for jacking up costs. However, isn't it the docs suggesting the procedures and writing the prescriptions. Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

                  Also, probably has to do with demand and supply.

                  Economist
                  Attached Files
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                    Hospitals have two tiers of charges. There's a rate book called the Chargemaster most of them use which lists astronomical charges for every procedure down to administering an aspirin. It's applied when the patient has no insurance or is not eligible for Medicare, which is the case with foreigners. For those who have insurance or gov't coverage, there is another, much lower rate set by the insurers or the government. So in practice, large, full-rate bills like the lady from Canada got would have been whittled down by as much as 80% if she had been a US citizen covered by a US insurer or Medicare. Her cost would have been limited to a deductable of around $5k and maybe some co-pays.

                    Case in point: My son had no insurance--this was just before Obamacare--when he went to the emergency room at our local hospital complaining of chest pains. He passed out at the receptionist desk and awoke in intensive care where he stayed for 3 days. It turns out he had an inflammation of the heart muscles (forgot the name of the condition). In any case, he was discharged with a $27,000 hospital bill and a separate physician's bill of around $800. Since he had no insurance and had no income at the time, the hospital wrote off his bill and applied to state Medicare for reimbursement. I doubt the hospital ever got the full $27,000. Had he been an uninsured foreigner or had the means to pay, more likely than not the hospital would have pursued full payment.
                    Jad,

                    The bold part - that applies to all who have no insurance and no income (?), or this was a one-off case.
                    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                      Jad,

                      The bold part - that applies to all who have no insurance and no income (?), or this was a one-off case.
                      It was a complete surprise to the family. I don't know if it applies to everyone or his was a special case. I do know the hospital could turn to state Medicare to get paid some of the charge. I think the $27,000 charge was based on the Chargemaster rates and was cut substantially when the hospital made a claim to Medicare.
                      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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