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Thread: Ignored Subjects By Authors and Publishers

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    I just read a very dense book on surveying and map-making by Great Britain in Afghanistan. My god, it was painful. But also one of the most useful books I have read of late.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

  2. #32
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori?
    All men must die.So why not do it in style if you have the opportunity?
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple C View Post
    I just read a very dense book on surveying and map-making by Great Britain in Afghanistan. My god, it was painful. But also one of the most useful books I have read of late.
    You know, seriously, cartography as a adjunct to military operations is probably a very much under-reported source of study. The Royal Navy's efforts in that regard are held to be legendary and yet we know so little about the actual accomplishment.

  4. #34
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple C View Post
    I just read a very dense book on surveying and map-making by Great Britain in Afghanistan. My god, it was painful. But also one of the most useful books I have read of late.

    Gotta agree with the Capt. A very interesting subject.

    Back in the Days before we went to UTM grids, the first thing you did was check the Datum.

    The Middle East/Africa was the worst because thats where many different datums started/ended. And many places had not been charted since the 1800s.

    If your FO is using a 1:50,000 map with Clark 1880 datum and the FDC had Freddie dialed in with ED50 datum. Someone will be in for a surprise when the round lands.

    I can remember many acetate grid overlays so that everyone was on the same sheet of music. Especially when conducting multinational ops.

    Attachment 38332
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 21 Oct 14, at 03:40.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  5. #35
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Back on track here, I would like to see more than the CNA report on Operation Eastern Exit.

    An op that got overlooked by many because of ODS.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  6. #36
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Gunny,

    1. Keep your day job....you are so off base!
    I think the other thing you may have been thinking (being an officer and gentleman and such) is physically impossible.
    2. Ranger Joe's....about useless. US Cavalry Store was better.
    Brigade Quartermaster. You could buy it right at the MCX
    3. The officers which you describe in your scenario would go on to be operations types. No combat logisitician would allow those circumsyances to come about.
    Start around 1:23 watch til 2:30

    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Gotta agree with the Capt. A very interesting subject.

    Back in the Days before we went to UTM grids, the first thing you did was check the Datum.

    The Middle East/Africa was the worst because thats where many different datums started/ended. And many places had not been charted since the 1800s.

    If your FO is using a 1:50,000 map with Clark 1880 datum and the FDC had Freddie dialed in with ED50 datum. Someone will be in for a surprise when the round lands.

    I can remember many acetate grid overlays so that everyone was on the same sheet of music. Especially when conducting multinational ops.

    Attachment 38332
    "Datum" is also the term for the last known (as in, someone actually saw it) position for a submarine in ASW ops.

  8. #38
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    Gunny,

    You forget I was an Infantry officer for 9 years before donning The Buzzard Shitting on a Barbacue Grill.

    In my day Brigade Quartermaster did not yet exist. In fact one of the best ways to get "neat gear" was to make friends with a rigger. They could sew some amazing stuff!

    And, yes, I was suggesting the shocking action.
    "The genius of you Americans is that you make no clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them we are missing." - Gamal Abdel Nasser

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Gunny,

    You forget I was an Infantry officer for 9 years before donning The Buzzard Shitting on a Barbacue Grill.

    In my day Brigade Quartermaster did not yet exist. In fact one of the best ways to get "neat gear" was to make friends with a rigger. They could sew some amazing stuff!

    And, yes, I was suggesting the shocking action.
    I had a command ball cap from every ship in our Cruiser-Destroyer Group (which was CRUDESGRU Five, not that it matters). I would often don one of them to walk out on the pier to see . . . and occasionally "liberate" . . . what I could see. You do what you gotta do to survive, and sometimes "dog robbing" is what you do.

  10. #40
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    And to think the fate of the free world was in the hands of you lot.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  11. #41
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertswo View Post
    I had a command ball cap from every ship in our Cruiser-Destroyer Group (which was CRUDESGRU Five, not that it matters). I would often don one of them to walk out on the pier to see . . . and occasionally "liberate" . . . what I could see. You do what you gotta do to survive, and sometimes "dog robbing" is what you do.
    Sir, Sir , Sir

    Lets not call it "Robbing". Tha'ts so crude.

    Remember the Navy/Marine Corps rule.

    Gear adrift is a gift.

    If various things were left unsecured, It must have been because they were Excess. You were doing them a favor by procuring that gear, and saving them the time and paperwork that would have taken place when they turned the stuff back into supply.

    They had it. Didn't need it. You needed it and took possession. Shipmates helping shipmates. Its how its suppose to work

    When I was at Ft Sill, I had enough army hats to outfit a working party.
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 23 Oct 14, at 03:22. Reason: changed position to possession
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  12. #42
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    A good friend of mine was stationed at FT Hood, Texas. At the time it was the home of the 1st Cavalry Division & 2d Armored Division. He was assigned to 2 AD....yet had a BDU blouse with a 1st Cavalry Patch for when he visited motorpools at the other end of the fort.

    Same principle.

    In the early 1980s in USAREUR there was a huge depot in Kaiserslautern (Giant REMF land). The had a facility where they were rebuilding M151 tons (jeeps to you guys) and this yard which must have covered 4 or 5 acres just covered in quarter tons waiting to go through the process. They started a program where you could drive in with your unit’s quarter ton and if you found a better vehicle in the waiting to rebuild yard, you could swap out.

    I took a convoy of 6 one sunny day in 1983 when I was a company XO. Go to the depot and checked in. My motor sergeant and several mechanics started going over some promising candidates and I headed in to process the paperwork. While in there I met the Depot XO. He was a broken down old Infantry major who was working in his secondary specialty (in the Army every officer has to have a secondary specialty….logistics, operations, resource management, personnel management, ORSA….you get the idea). He had been a company commander in our battalion a few years before and his eyes lit up when he could “reblue” with a fellow Infantry officer.

    A grabbed his hat and said “Let’s go, LT!” and out the door we went. We hopped in a pickup truck and he gave me a tour of the place. What the hell….it was a nice day to kill a few hours. The last stop was the ginormous warehouse and he was come check this out. He was like the captain in Stripes wanting to show someone the EM-50.

    He unlocked the door and we went inside and my jaw dropped. The entire place was packed with “Army stuff”. Remember the warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark?

    Yeah, just like that.

    He explained this was the building where all excess equipment in USAREUR ended up before it got picked back up by the supply system. He said as of right now NONE of this stuff was accounted for in the army’s supply system.

    That’s when my brain went *DING*!

    I knew my unit was short some items so I took that up with the major. He said “Why don’t you go shopping.”

    I grabbed an M2 Aiming Circle (the one for our Mortar Section wouldn’t stay calibrated), a couple of drills and several other small but hard to get items. He put them into the back of the pickup truck and said he would meet us at the first Autobahn rest stop on our way back to home station. I mounted up in our new jeeps and we headed out. We were stopped at the gate and searched by the guards who wanted to make sure we were not pilfering items. We drove out and met the major about 5 kms down the road.

    When we got back my CO CDR & BN S4 couldn’t believe what I pulled off.

    I got an AAM for that.

    And I sent the major a unit coffee and beer mug.
    "The genius of you Americans is that you make no clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them we are missing." - Gamal Abdel Nasser

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    A good friend of mine was stationed at FT Hood, Texas. At the time it was the home of the 1st Cavalry Division & 2d Armored Division. He was assigned to 2 AD....yet had a BDU blouse with a 1st Cavalry Patch for when he visited motorpools at the other end of the fort . . . And I sent the major a unit coffee and beer mug.
    Totally unrelated to anything Albany, I just noticed your Heinlein quote. I take it you have read Time Enough For Love, and the essay contained therein called "The Tale Of The Man Who Was Too Lazy To Fail?" If so, then you are reading about me. It's a hilarious story, but seriously, I first read that book when I was a JG in Constellation, and didn't think too hard about it at the time, but as my career went on I kept revisiting the story, and found more and more parallels. It wasn't so much about laziness in my case, rather, I just kept accepting assignments in a field, main propulsion engineering, that while necessary and much appreciated by the detailers, were far from what is "career enhancing."

    Call it fear of the unknown or laziness, but I essentially didn't do anything totally out of my comfort zone until I had my XO/CO ride, and then the War College/Joint Staff and the twilight tour in counterterrorism after that. I sort of blossomed late in my career, but damaged the hell out of it in the early to mid-years. I couldn't "fail" because I was really good at making steam and keeping aging ships in the fray, but that only served to give selection boards a reason not to screen me ultimately for major command. That's why no cruiser after the frigate, and while I doubt I was anyone's idea of a Flag Officer, I for sure wasn't going to be one with my resume. Top 1% and 1 of 5 doesn't really help if it is all in one area of endeavor, even if the tours are more and more demanding.

    Not bitter mind you. After all, in accordance with DOPMA, only one percent of any accession group make O-6, and I had a hell of a good time for most of my career (you all know you never really remember the bad and super-scary stuff all that well) but when I was mentoring young officers and CPOs in the later stages of my career, I definitely made sure they heard the message, "DON'T BE LIKE MIKE!" Branch out and do different things, and don't let some freaking detailer in DC talk you into doing something "for the good of the service" if you know in your heart of hearts that it will hurt you in the long run. Yeah, when the balloon goes up, you say "Aye, aye Sir" and take the hill, but when it's a peacetime, or sort of "not war" that the Surface Navy at least has mostly been involved in, you have options, and looking out for number one professionally does not make one a leper.

  14. #44
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    Skipper,

    I couldn't agree more.

    Being an Infantry/Acquisition guy before it was cool was adefinitely a different route.

    But it explains how I have a great job at FT Lee, VA. Yes I am a logistician...I was a Support Platoon leader, Battalion S4 & Brigade S4 but I never knew how a warehouse operated, what it meant to be a tech supply officer, what it meant to be a property accountability specialist and how to balance the books. But by walking a very different path than everyone else I often bring a perspective to an issue which is off the beaten path....but bypasses road blocks.

    It may have caused my time in uniform to top at out a lower rank than desired but it forged a very succesful path in the civilian world.
    "The genius of you Americans is that you make no clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them we are missing." - Gamal Abdel Nasser

  15. #45
    Love this thread, would like to see a book on logistics. Comparing Alexander to the pacific war to Napoleon in Russia. So many interesting stats and angles. Sankey diagrams and all.

    Same goes for cartography. Would add hydrographic survey to that.


    My own pet topic is SDVs. There isn't even a single book (yet!) which really addresses the subject in anything like the topic in anything like the detail given other forms of military transport. I have lost count but I think I know of at least ten SDV types which are simply not in any books (or web) at all, and maybe another hundred which are so rarely covered (and limited info) as to 'unknown'. Fascinating subject, although maybe very few of us think so. I am hoping that the bigger reason for the continued obscurity is because people simply don't know what they don't know.

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