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Thread: Ignored Subjects By Authors and Publishers

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor DonBelt's Avatar
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    Just a simple observer, but it seems pretty true. Most of our efforts prior to deployments centered around supplies and stocking up, and while underway spent a considerable amount of time doing unreps and vertreps. That said, the army that can do more with less and closer to home seems to have the lesser logistical problem to solve.

    Wasn't there also a German officer in WW2 that noted that if the American's have logistical support to spare to allow mothers to mail cakes to their sons, then the war was lost? (or something to that effect)
    Last edited by DonBelt; 16 Oct 14, at 19:25.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonBelt View Post
    Just a simple observer, but it seems pretty true. Most of our efforts prior to deployments centered around supplies and stocking up, and while underway spent a considerable amount of time doing unreps and vertreps. That said, the army that can do more with less and closer to home seems to have the lesser logistical problem to solve.

    Wasn't there also a German officer in WW2 that noted that if the American's have logistical support to spare to allow mothers to mail cakes to their sons, then the war was lost? (or something to that effect)
    That is known in the business as fighting on "interior" lines. The guy with the shorter Lines of Communication (LOC), or interior lines, always has the advantage . . . unless he is taking on the US, in which case, we've made fighting on "exterior" lines sort of the family business.

    Take Desert Storm/Desert Shield as the classic example of this logistics protocol. We not only established the mother of all "air bridges," but we also activated our considerable permanently forward deployed MARAD capability in the form of RO-RO and other forms of logistic transport shipping from Guam and elsewhere. Desert Shield was that period in which we then established and grew our combat power in the region. Barring Saddam Hussein doing something tragically stupid, "Stormin' Norman" wasn't going to move until that mass of logistics and reserve tracks, etc. was where he wanted it all to be. Then he used more of it in the form of the largest amphibious task force seen since WWII to pin the Republican Guard on the coast in Kuwait. The only people who didn't know that that task force was never going to make an assault from the sea was Schwarzkopf's inner staff. Even the Marines at sea and the crews of the ships they were riding were convinced that they were going for Iwo Jima II. The rest, as they say, is history, but none of that could have happened without the various navies involved keeping the Sea Lines of Communication (SLOC) open, because that allows all things to happen, and for us to fight on exterior lines.

  3. #18
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    Hey Gunny

    3 things

    1. See if you can read my mind and what I am thinking now.

    2. Sorry we couldn't come up with a coloring book for you.

    3. Supplying War Martin Van Creveld
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

  4. #19
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Hey Gunny

    3 things

    1. See if you can read my mind and what I am thinking now.
    AR's thinking "The Gunny got me again"

    2. Sorry we couldn't come up with a coloring book for you.
    I understand that it is a "Organisational Issue Item". And even if it was an Individual Issue Item, We know that the required crayon set would have to be shipped separate.

    That's why I ordered my copy from Ranger Joe's.. It was in stock and I got overnight shipping.

    3. Supplying War Martin Van Creveld
    Green eggs and ham Dr Seuss



    Lets say, you, as a Company Commander, are a bit short when it comes inventory time. Whom do you turn to to make up those discrepancies ?

    The official supply channel ran by a bunch of officers that have studied Van Creveld, Or,

    Your Senior NCOs?

    Which one can get you a jar of Goobers peanut butter or a roll of dip half way through a "Bright Star" rotation?

    Your welcome
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 17 Oct 14, at 13:21.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Lets say, you, as a Company Commander, are a bit short when it comes inventory time. Whom do you turn to to make up those discrepancies ?

    The official supply channel ran by a bunch of officers that have studied Van Creveld, Or,

    Your Senior NCOs?

    Which one can get you a jar of Goobers peanut butter or a roll of dip half way through a "Bright Star" rotation?

    Your welcome
    I've met van Creveld. Interesting guy, but not necessarily someone at whose throne the entire commissioned world worships. Just another way of looking at this thing called "war."

  6. #21
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    Gunny,

    1. Keep your day job....you are so off base!

    2. Ranger Joe's....about useless. US Cavalry Store was better.

    3. The officers which you describe in your scenario would go on to be operations types. No combat logisitician would allow those circumsyances to come about.

    Skipper,

    Regarding Creveld...I concur with your assessment of Creveld in other arena but Supplying War was pretty spot on. It was certainly better than that crap Pagonis was peddling in Moving Mountains.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    Also this:


    The Battle of Manners Street, Wellington, 1943

    This riot, which has passed into Wellington legend as “the Battle of Manners Street”, took place on the evening of Saturday, 3 April 1943. It began at the Allied Services' Club in Manners Street (now the Manners Street Post Office) when, it is alleged, servicemen from the southern United States refused to let some Maori servicemen drink in the club. When the Americans removed their Army service belts to emphasise their point of view, New Zealand servicemen joined in and the “battle” spread into the streets. American military police, who arrived to restore order, took sides and used their batons. The fighting spread to the A.N.A. Club in Willis Street, where belts and knives were used, and into Cuba Street. It has been estimated that over 1,000 American and New Zealand, troops were involved, as well as several hundreds of civilians. The battle lasted for about four hours before order was restored by the civil police. Many American soldiers were injured during this affray and at least two were killed. The “Battle of Manners Street” was the ugliest riot in New Zealand's history.

    The “Battle of Manners Street” was not the only clash between American and New Zealand troops in New Zealand cities. About the same time there were two similar riots in Auckland, and a further clash occurred outside the Mayfair Cabaret, in Cuba Street, Wellington, on 12 May 1945. There was also a clash between a small party of American servicemen and Maori civilians at Otaki in October 1943.

    In no case has the result of any of the ensuing inquiries been published; and, owing to the strictures of wartime censorship, no reference to the riots appeared at the time in local newspapers.
    It is also alleged that the battle was about the 2nd division troops home on leave from North African who were somewhat annoyed about the Americans taking the Kiwi "sheilas" away from Kiwi troops who had been fighting in North Africa then Greece, Crete and back to continue the desert war in North Africa since 1940. So some umbridge was taken by the Kiwi troops. By all accounts they dealt to the Americans.

  8. #23
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    Oh I'm sure the yanks did ok too! Can't put thousands of young men into a scene and not expect some friction.

    Attachment 38313


    I recently was made custodian of my families meagre medal supply. Those three are campaign medals for the napoleonic, newzealand and great wars. A bit of a summary of colonial life there. Thought it might interest some of you.

  9. #24
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    The New Zealand War medal would be a rarity today. Do you wear them on ANZAC Day dawn parades?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngatimozart View Post
    The New Zealand War medal would be a rarity today. Do you wear them on ANZAC Day dawn parades?
    Not mine to wear mate. And my old grandpa hated Anzac Day passionately. I defer to him on that one.

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    Not mine to wear mate. And my old grandpa hated Anzac Day passionately. I defer to him on that one.
    Mine wasn't too keen on it either. Never was clear on why. Don't think he had much of an opinion of the military. Preferred a beer with his mates.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  12. #27
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    Ok fair enough.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngatimozart View Post
    Ok fair enough.
    Mate, some of my reticence is derived from the fact that top hatters interesting thread about logistics has been utterly derailed by me! Mea culpa. But my family military history is one of colonial boys being treated like shit and by my count involves one beheaded coast watcher, one pow for four years in Austria, one deeply traumatised grandpa, my dad's uncle shot in the back on the Somme, one nameless ancestor shot to hell in colonial fracas in Waikato and a couple of wellingtons scum of the earth.
    Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori?

  14. #29
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Just one point Louis. There are no interesting threads about logistics. We just pretend there are to be polite.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    Hey Bigfella,

    Go eff yourself!!!
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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