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Thread: Modi gives free hand to forces over Pak ceasefire violation

  1. #46
    Military Enthusiast Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    How? The others give participants a fair amount of discussion. How is he better? Because he caters to fanbois like you? Stop trolling in every god darn thread.
    Then stop trolling in every thread and calling everybody who you disagree with as a fanboy. You throw out the term fanboy very easily. If you keep this up, I am gonna call you a fanboy every time your post doesn't make sense. You are just like Arnab or the other crackheads on tv who call other people names if they don't agree with you or fit your narrative.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Right, and Arnab does not? Have you not watched his debates and analysis

    you say he is better, I say he is worse. The tragedy is that he can be far better
    He is the worst except for all others and that is not saying a lot. I have seen his ilk and he shines like a diamond in the middle of turds. That is not saying a lot.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Right, you want to stay in the '90s or move ahead?

    There is a saying - cut your nose to spite others. You seem to be more consumed on destroying Pakistan than growing yourself. Stop being obsessed with them. all we need to do is ride out the next 2 years and ensure that Pakistan is not able to divert their western insurgent assets back to Kashmir. We dont need to even talk to them. They will come around begging to talk about water and Siachen. Water is going to be a life and death issue for them soon.
    That is what I called putting your head in the sand like an ostrich.That was MMS's approach and look where it got him.

    You cannot ignore them. You have to be eternally vigilante and be willing to strike back hard and disproportional.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Mature. That is the word.
    You mature??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHHEHEHEHEH EHEHEHEHEHEHE!!!! You took the words right out of my mouth!!! ROFLMAO!!!

    *wiping tears from my eye* yeah sure whatever you say.

    Oh! Spare me the rubbish. I know where you come from.
    Don't worry. We all know where you came from. Actually we can smell where you come from.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yes I do

    Pakistan and India can be like US/ Canada. They are not monsters across the board. Half the people are under the control of feudal warlords or tribals. Much of the society is backward. The media, while vocal, is afraid to criticize the army and ISI even after multiple failure recently. Spend your time thinking how you can take down the Pakistan Army, not on how to lob nukes at their populace. Read up Christine Fair
    That is wishful thinking. You have to hope that Pakistan will give up their ideology of Islamic nationalism. That won't happen in a 1000 years. Until they wake up and change their ideology, they will keep on their intent of destroying India. The only way that they will ever wake up is to bitch slap them so hard and kick the crap out of them until they scream Uncle. Only then they will start changing their ideology.

    Don't be so passive like Prithviraj Chauhan who failed to understand the meaning of finishing off the enemy once and for all. He and all of us paid a very steep price for that foolish wishful thinking.

  6. #51
    Senior Contributor commander's Avatar
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    IMV the only thing that keeps Pakistan united is India. The hatred towards India. They know it very well too. Hence whenever there is a internal issue they start with their Kashmir rhetoric or start to shell our borders.

    They failed to rally support with their PM's ISI manufactured speech in the UNGA and the PA almost took Sheriff out of power along with the cleric and Imran. He knows what fate awaits him for messing with Pervez Musharraf. Hence he and his political jokers and the likes of Bilawal Bhutto cry Kashmir every single time, when they have nothing to offer apart from these talks.

  7. #52
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commander View Post
    Yes, I remember that interview. Anyway, PA-ISI can't exist for this long wrecking havoc if not supported by their people. That doesn't mean every one of them is hand in hand with ISI , BUT they can stop what's happening and unfortunately only they can stop. Or we will be forced to stop them taking damage on us.
    Not sure if you are getting the point. PA does not want to lose importance and power, that is why they do not want Kashmir solved and will come up with a new one if it gets solved.

    About support from the people, watch this:



    Hope you understand Urdu. For those who don't, Moeed Pirzada (fair guy in glasses, well known anchor in Pakistani and IMO one of the best in South Asia) claims that civilian ascendancy over the military is good, while Fawad Chadhury (stocky darkish guy, former PPP minister and lawyer) argues that Pakistan lacks the right civil institutions to support and ascendant civil government. In his opinion, the army is the last independent institution remaining, away from the grasp of corrupt politicians. And he is a hardcore liberal!

    A very eye opening analysis.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  8. #53
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    what is pakistan response?does nawaz sharif even know about this recent issue or is still busy eating nihari

  9. #54
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batista View Post
    Yesterday in the TimesNow debate few Pakistani guests were invited including Gen Quraishi and a so called "Journalist" who looked more a fashion model.

    Arnab asked him why Pakistani media is muzzled and why Pakistani media not showing anything the way Indian media is showing ie. going to firing areas interviewing people, showing hospital,injured people, shells,bullets,destroyed civilian houses and all that.
    An Arnab 'debate' on Indo Pak-relations usually goes like this


  10. #55
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    He is the worst except for all others and that is not saying a lot. I have seen his ilk and he shines like a diamond in the middle of turds. That is not saying a lot.
    I am afraid you have a misconception of what a diamond actually is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    That is what I called putting your head in the sand like an ostrich.That was MMS's approach and look where it got him.

    You cannot ignore them. You have to be eternally vigilante and be willing to strike back hard and disproportional.
    Feel free to keep rereading till you get my point. Others got it and I am sure you would too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    TThe only way that they will ever wake up is to bitch slap them so hard and kick the crap out of them until they scream Uncle. Only then they will start changing their ideology.
    Feel free to explain how, in a nuclear scenario.

    Lob artillery shells at them on every new moon? Block their oil shipments? Take Arjun Tanks across the border? Refuse to do trade? Refuse to release water and parch them? Release a lot of water and flood them? Kidnap their fishermen? Take out suparis (contract) on their politicians and generals? Blast bombs in Karachi? Have acid poured on their schoolgirls? Poke Nawaz on his fat belly when he visits the UN and SAARC summits? Puncture a hole in Imran Khan's container? Pull Tahirul Qadri's beard? Slap Bilawal Bhutto around till he says Mummy in his posh Anglo-Pak accent (this one I actually like, he has a very slappable face)?

    What exactly does bitch slap and kick the crap mean? What if Pakistan actually respects a ceasefire, like they had been doing till Jan 2013? What would international consequences on India be if we still insist on bitchslapping and crapkicking ?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    I am afraid you have a misconception of what a diamond actually is.


    Feel free to keep rereading till you get my point. Others got it and I am sure you would too.
    They already got your point but doesn't mean they agree with your point.

    Feel free to explain how, in a nuclear scenario.

    Lob artillery shells at them on every new moon? Block their oil shipments? Take Arjun Tanks across the border? Refuse to do trade? Refuse to release water and parch them? Release a lot of water and flood them? Kidnap their fishermen? Take out suparis (contract) on their politicians and generals? Blast bombs in Karachi? Have acid poured on their schoolgirls? Poke Nawaz on his fat belly when he visits the UN and SAARC summits? Puncture a hole in Imran Khan's container? Pull Tahirul Qadri's beard? Slap Bilawal Bhutto around till he says Mummy in his posh Anglo-Pak accent (this one I actually like, he has a very slappable face)?

    What exactly does bitch slap and kick the crap mean? What if Pakistan actually respects a ceasefire, like they had been doing till Jan 2013? What would international consequences on India be if we still insist on bitchslapping and crapkicking ?
    Your post is very telling. You are afraid to take any kind of action because you are so concerned about the consequences. Congratulations. You just paralyzed yourself with fear. Not a good way of defending yourself. You don't have any bold vision of neutralizing the threat. Your attitude is "Let it lie and live. Turn the other cheek." How Gandhian of you.

    And for somebody who claims that I have missed your point, well I think you have missed other people's points especially in that other thread with respect to a nuclear scenario. You need to reread those posts to understand that having nuclear weapons doesn't necessarily mean that you are safe from attack or retaliation. As long as India can develop capabilities that can target Pakistan's ability to launch nuclear weapons, India do have the means of bitchslapping Pakistan. That s what MMS and his ilk failed to understand and likewise you and that had caused India's capabilities to be eroded.

  12. #57
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commander View Post
    Except this time around the fight doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon, at least we won't stop first. For Pakistani Army it is a matter of pride at the moment. For India it is about putting a statement in the world forum that India can take care of Pakistan if it wishes so in a way that Pakistan will understand and they can't intervene in India's internal affairs. Making it clear to the UN that they can't dome brokering a deal with India and Pakistan on the Kashmir issue.
    Read Tronic's article here from 2011 and tell me how 'this time' is different ?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yes I do

    Pakistan and India can be like US/ Canada. They are not monsters across the board. Half the people are under the control of feudal warlords or tribals. Much of the society is backward. The media, while vocal, is afraid to criticize the army and ISI even after multiple failure recently. Spend your time thinking how you can take down the Pakistan Army, not on how to lob nukes at their populace. Read up Christine Fair
    Can be but can't.India can come closer to a 2nd world country(now considered 2.5 world country) but Pakistan is indeed counted as a 3rd world FAILED STATE patronizing extremism and terrorism and a global headache for peace.

    As a fact people like Mushraf sold dreams of "Pakistan can be Japan" but now he is a criminal and cases pending on him.In 60's Pakistan was actually going ahead of India until they started terrorism as a state policy.Unless Pakistan has a huge shift in their basic ideology they would go nowhere except backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Arnab acts like a shitty journalist, when he is actually not. His coverage during Modi's NYC tour showed that he can be mature and informed when he chooses to be. In front of desis and pakistanis, he acts like a showman instead of a journalist. There are so many ways to catch these Pakistani idiots lying, such as comparing of maps, positions of Indian/ **** troops, weapons used. that takes research. Instead he takes the easy way out of shouting.
    Arnab may act like a shouting journalist and not letting people talk much but as compared to the crappy-sickular-ultra-liberal so called journalists living in illusions and trying to be "peace dove" even if it comes against national interests.What happened to the idiot Rajdeep is in front of us.He is lucky he was not thrashed black and blue for being such an idiot and talking crap on a foreign soil against the Indian PM.This is nothing but a sedition and crossing the limits of journalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yeah, ask that to Vajpayee, on why he did not cross international borders during Kargil (there was no threat of nuclear weapons at that time, whoever says that is uninformed or lying) or during Operation Parakram.
    What I referred to was that why would India listen to the so called "International Community" when terrorists come inside your house and kill your people.This community would laugh at India since if a country of 1.2 Billion can't defend themselves then why would those tiny countries care.Why should India run to "International Community" every time something happen.Where was this "International Community" when Pakistan killed 1 Million+ people and raped 200,000 women in Bangladesh? It affected us and we responded.

    Also Pak Army is doing atrocities and genocide to Baloch,Shias,Hazaras,Ahmediayas,Hindus,Sikhs,Chris tians in Pakistan and this "International Community" is silent.

    In Kargil India did a basic thing right ie not crossing the border though Pakistan tried to trap India to do so but failed.India made their basic case strong and it helped since all countries supported India(including Muslim countries) and even the all weather friend of Pakistan asked Pakistan to respect LoC and pull back.Pakistan lost it's 4000 soldiers(a lot without uniform as usual) and didn't even accept their rotting bodies lying on Indian side.

    About Operation Parakram...India is not interested in capturing the land of Pakistan and can create enough havoc without crossing the border.As a fact India gave back the land it won thinking it might help in long term peace.By again capturing land we might be considered as a aggressor and expansionist and it would help the Ideology of Pakistan that India wants to capture and rule Pakistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    No one is obligated to help you obtain your reading comprehension and follow the thread. Do your own work.

    This seems to be your modi operandi. So far, you have accused me, Sated Buddha, commander, and several others whose names escape my memory for the moment of being fanboys because you disagree with what we say.
    He called all names to me too to which I didn't respond since his level goes down the drain in 1 sec.He threatened to ban me at the moment I joined since he thought I am one of those millions he had a fanboi-type fights with.
    Last edited by Batista; 10 Oct 14, at 11:04.

  14. #59
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    :Your post is very telling. You are afraid to take any kind of action because you are so concerned about the consequences. Congratulations. You just paralyzed yourself with fear. Not a good way of defending yourself. You don't have any bold vision of neutralizing the threat. Your attitude is "Let it lie and live. Turn the other cheek." How Gandhian of you.
    So give that 'bold vision'. he's covered the usual moves.

    Those that advocate a change from the status quo need to provide what actions and the objectives. It's for them to add something new there.

  15. #60
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yes I do

    Pakistan and India can be like US/ Canada. They are not monsters across the board. Half the people are under the control of feudal warlords or tribals. Much of the society is backward. The media, while vocal, is afraid to criticize the army and ISI even after multiple failure recently. Spend your time thinking how you can take down the Pakistan Army, not on how to lob nukes at their populace. Read up Christine Fair
    She's been doing the rounds, and this time at Carnegie. Check out Ashley's take on her book.

    A major issue is it's not clear to what extent the army's ideology percolates down to the people. If its stops at the army that's one thing but if it goes down further then its bad. To the point where even if a civilan govt comes to power will they be all that different.

    To help Pakistan get out of the rut India has to become a lot more successful. This forces them into a spending contest they cannot win.

    It requires the US to cut down on aid to Pakistan which she terms as methadone treatment. Though she does not set out to do it, her work is a very sharp critique on US policy which for better or worse allows Pakistan to continue on its chosen path. At the same time it also allows the US a certain degree of influence with PA. So cutting aid means losing that influence. Pakistan has been lucky in this way, always successful at extracting strategic rents from external actors.

    If India has been fortunate to survive this long then Pakistan is a miracle. This talk about 'failed state' is bunk. The army has been ingenious in keeping Pakistan going this long and to the point where its now deemed too important to fail. That is some work.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Oct 14, at 13:10.

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