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US troops arriving in Liberia to help contain Ebola

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  • #91
    Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    Of the six I work with directly, two are private, and the rest are nonprofit entities that are not affiliated with the state. In some cases they cannot legally turn a patient away. However, the hospital leadership's plan in that case is to try to work out an arrangement to transfer them to Omaha or Atlanta asap.

    The problem is that Omaha and Atlanta don't have unlimited facilities (assuming they agree to take them at all), and they really need to be figuring out how to deal with Ebola patients who will be staying in their hospitals long term.

    It feels like people are still burying their heads in the sand and hoping they don't get a case. Which is unrealistic considering we have an international aid organization located here who is planning to start shuttling hundreds of aid workers to Liberia and back every month very shortly.
    Hundreds every month? Good lord.

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    • #92
      Supposedly that is their goal. I don't know that it will come to fruition as it seemed pretty optimistic to me, but I have to plan as if they know what they are talking about.

      They have already sent a few advanced teams, but they are rather small and I believe they are surveying the situation in Monrovia to figure out how to best bring in greater numbers of medical personnel.
      Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 17 Oct 14,, 16:24.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
        Supposedly that is their goal. I don't know that it will come to fruition as it seemed pretty optimistic to me, but I have to plan as if they know what they are talking about.

        They have already sent a few advanced teams, but they are rather small and I believe they are surveying the situation in Monrovia to figure out how to best bring in greater numbers of medical personnel.
        I tell ya, there's no shortage of brave people in this country.

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        • #94
          Guy with clipboard IDed:

          Dallas nurse Amber Vinson's plane had mystery man without Ebola hazmat suit - CBS News

          Turns out he was a safety coordinator for the air transport company. He wasn't wearing safety gear so that he can have good hearing and peripheral vision to help keep over watch.

          However, if you look at the video, there was at least one potential slip up at 1:05 when he reaches for the object in the protected worker's hand. Fortunately the guy withdrew the object and gave it to someone else.

          I wonder why the coordinator wasn't wearing at least gloves and a gown.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
            Just to repeat, Nigeria faced a situation where an the infection entered the country uncontrolled and spread within and outside Lagos uncontrolled for weeks. They had 20 cases & 8 deaths. Nigeria! I know the US health system is flawed, but I'm going to go out on a limb here & predict that it can handle any cases transported under controlled conditions.
            The Nigerians did very well, fingers crossed. Seemingly a combination of effective bureaucracy and low population mobility. Sierra Leone, Liberia etc unfortunately don't have the bureaucracy and so a relatively uninfectious disease has moved through the entire area and is now uncontainable. I doubt the efficacy of dropping troops into the heart of the infection area and I doubt they are any better than the U.S. hospitals and CDC operationally.
            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

            Leibniz

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            • #96
              Clipboard guy is getting way too much attention. You don't need extensive PPE just to be in the vicinity of someone with Ebola. Unless you are doing a procedure that generates aerosolized particles, you don't even need a mask if you stay at least 4 feet away.

              The bigger risk is actually the guys in space suits who get contaminated when they go to doff their gear and screw up their decontamination procedures.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                The Nigerians did very well, fingers crossed. Seemingly a combination of effective bureaucracy and low population mobility. Sierra Leone, Liberia etc unfortunately don't have the bureaucracy and so a relatively uninfectious disease has moved through the entire area and is now uncontainable. I doubt the efficacy of dropping troops into the heart of the infection area and I doubt they are any better than the U.S. hospitals and CDC operationally.
                I guess we'll find out how well it works. To me, the sense in sending troops in has several aspects. One is that a US medical unit brings its own infrastructure. Useful when the locals have shit infrastructure on a good day & next to no useful infrastructure now that the epidemic has ramped up. Another is that they are presumably trained to function in difficult conditions. Some may even have had experience in places like Iraq & Afghanistan. Also useful in trying conditions. The third is that they are probably better equipped & trained to deal with a potentially flammable situation. There has already been some violence surrounding this.

                I agree that these folk are probably no better than the CDC, but I don't know if the CDC can drop a hospital across the Atlantic in a few days. I also agree that they are no better than some US hospitals, but I'll bet these folk are better trained than many, perhaps most US hospitals in infection control.

                The closer you stop this to source the better. That is going to involve the world sending people to Africa.
                sigpic

                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                • #98
                  Apparently Nina Pham, the first nurse infected in Dallas, has been transferred to an NIH facility in Maryland, while staff in Dallas have signed a binding pledge not to travel or attend public gatherings (I'm sure there is more).
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                    They are on a flight line. Covers are a FOD hazard.
                    Good point. I was a crew member on an airborne command post at one time in my life. Military headgear stayed in our flight suit pockets.

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                    • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                      My reaction was "why are we sending several thousand soldiers to West Africa?"
                      Yes. What is the vital national interest in "Ebola country" that caused The One on the golf course to send American military troops?

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                      • Originally posted by citanon View Post

                        Until we get Zmapp and the vaccines stockpiled the current epidemic is certainly a national security threat. In fact, it's an existential threat to the US.

                        PS - I have a PhD from a first tier US research university and currently work in one on biotechnology research. I am not trying to be alarmist but threat is real and dire. You can take this as a fully informed scientific opinion borne from the best education and information the Western world has to offer.

                        I agree with you about the health care workers who are in contact with the patients. However, I think using US troops to build installations is absolutely appropriate. I am concerned for the safety of our soldiers given the deteriorating security situation and the potential for terrorist attacks that we have not experienced before, but given the risks to our national security, I don't think we have a choice.

                        In the mean time, Zmapp production is ramping up, and vaccine candidates are advancing. In a few years I think we will be able to breath a sigh of relief. Right now, however, we are in a window of extraordinary vulnerability.
                        Cool beans. I like smart people. I have a few questions for you doctor.

                        Why do you believe the US is at any risk whatsoever?
                        Why do you believe there is a risk to our national security?
                        Why do you believe Americans should be put at risk to build hospitals for nations most of us have never even heard of at a distance of more than 5,000 miles from us?
                        How is this different from the last ten Ebola outbreaks?

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                        • Originally posted by citanon View Post
                          Ive been thinking about this but im not convinced. Lets start from the basis of being absolutely ruthless in prioritizing our security. Even then you have to admit that its impossible to completely quarantine these countries, and even if we shut down travel to the us, we cannot shut it down to europe or other one stop from us destinations.

                          If you then declare travel bans ir quarantine zones, that may have the effect of spark8ng an exodus. This would in turn lead to an even faster and wider spread of te disease while creating perverse incentives for those with cintact to ebola infected individuals to avoid detection. Thus quarantine measures could cause the very things they are supposed to prevent.
                          This does not convince me. Nearby countries are stopping movement across their borders. We can easily keep the 150 potentially Ebola-exposed people per day who are coming here from the US as a destination. We don't need them. And we do not need further exposure. Let the virus burn out in "Ebola country" without making the US one of the countries.

                          Who cares about what other countries do? That is a problem for them and their citizens.

                          'splain yourself, if you would like.

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                          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                            No other nation can mount a transnational and intercontinental effort on this scale.

                            We have the means to do this. We can sustain a 24 hour OPTEMPO indefinitely while others do the details.

                            Big is what we are good at.

                            And frankly if there is one country in Africa to which we owe a debt it is Liberia....we had a hand in its founding and sustaining through the generations.
                            Yes we can! Oops! Did I just Obama? Sorry everyone.

                            We owe nothing to Liberia.

                            What is our vital national interest?

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                            • Originally posted by MisterVeritis View Post
                              What is our vital national interest?
                              As I understand it. Ebola is one mutation away from killing 90% of human population. The more humans the virus is exposed to, the closer it gets to that one mutation.

                              It is therefore in everyone's interest to drive that exposure down as much as possible.
                              Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 19 Oct 14,, 23:15.
                              Chimo

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                              • Originally posted by MisterVeritis View Post
                                Yes. What is the vital national interest in "Ebola country" that caused The One on the golf course to send American military troops?
                                Because burying your head in sand until a dangerous contagion goes away has had such success in the past.

                                "Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more."

                                -George Patton
                                "Draft beer, not people."

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