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  • What is wrong with the Cowpens?

    Is there such a thing as a Jinxed ship?

    In 2010 Capt. Holly Graf, was relieved of command of the Cowpens.

    Navy to let ousted captain of Yokosuka-based ship to get 'honorable' retirement - Stripes

    In 2012 her replacement Capt. Robert Marin was relieved of command

    Commanding officer of Yokosuka-based USS Cowpens fired - Japan - Stripes

    In 2014 his replacement was also fired.

    Navy captain retreated to cabin for weeks mid-deployment, report says - CBS News

    And now the XO has been relieved for a DUI

    Executive officer of USS Cowpens relieved after alcohol-related incident | Stripes Japan


    Five leaders (3 COs,1 CMC and a XO) in 4 years. WTF?

  • #2
    Maybe not jinxed......but perhaps someone ought to be investigating the Captain's cabin to make sure it is not contaminated with a mind altering substance, at least.

    Comment


    • #3
      I knew Holly Graf. I shuddered when I heard they were giving her that ship after what she did with USS Winston Churchill. I couldn't believe the Navy was that stupid, but I should know better by now. Had nothing to do with being a woman, and everything to do with being an idiot.

      Cowpens has definitely been through leadership hell. Whoever straightens her out will probably get a star for doing it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by desertswo View Post
        I knew Holly Graf. I shuddered when I heard they were giving her that ship after what she did with USS Winston Churchill. I couldn't believe the Navy was that stupid, but I should know better by now. Had nothing to do with being a woman, and everything to do with being an idiot.
        Sir, might we press you for an anecdote?
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
          Sir, might we press you for an anecdote?
          She was one of my students at Surface Warfare Officers School Command during the mid- to late-90s. You don't usually remember too many students with an annual throughput of 1200 ranging from brand new Ensigns going to their first tours, to senior Captains going to their major commands. She stood out. She stood out, because she knew everything and if you didn't think so, just wait a while, she'd tell you. And in somewhat aggressive, bordering on disrespectful (I was a full Commander, she wasn't) tones. You just knew that anyone, regardless of gender, with that sort of attitude was going to be trouble. Then I heard what went down on Churchill (BTW, the only US warship with a full time Royal Navy officer as a member of the wardroom; usually the navigator) and wasn't surprised. I was retired already when I heard from friends still in the business that she screened for major command and she was getting a cruiser. I was shocked.

          You know some d*i*c*kheads lead charmed lives and keep getting kicked up the ladders. I knew one infamous male officer who specialized in amphibious warfare who made it to one star before the Navy finally figured out he was an abusive b*a*s*stard. I was set to go to the commissioning of USS Wasp, as my father was a plank owner on the one sunk at Guadalcanal, and I was a member (because my mother kept registering me as one out of respect for my father) of their crew member's organization, until I found out that Leonard F. Picotte was going to be the CO. I told my mother, "Fuck that" in so many words. I never said things like that around my mother, so when I did, she knew I was urinated off about it. The guy was a mindless thug.

          Anyway, like I said, some real jerks keep moving up the chain and you often wonder if they have something on someone else or whatever, because most of us sane people just don't understand the process.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by desertswo View Post
            .......She stood out, because she knew everything and if you didn't think so, just wait a while, she'd tell you. And in somewhat aggressive, bordering on disrespectful ........
            Wow.....I learned that, about the ERROR of correcting the instructor......in NROTC.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tamara View Post
              Wow.....I learned that, about the ERROR of correcting the instructor......in NROTC.
              She wasn't correcting me, but she would her classmates who didn't appreciate it. With me, she would hold forth with very opinionated and pedantic vocal essays on this engineering system or that. I heard about how she was treating my instructors. I mostly taught the PCOs and PXOs, but I seem to recall this was in the Department Head course where I taught a course on a engineering casualty control drill protocol that had been developed by the PEB and was promulgated by both LANTFLT and PACFLT, and she thought it was a pile of caca.

              Comment


              • #8
                Read an article earlier this year that while the captain of Cowpens had retired to his quarters ill with the flu events got interesting. Here's the article.
                The Thinking Housewife › Strange Events on the USS Cowpens

                Edit: Reading the comments section is also worthwhile.
                Last edited by Chunder; 29 Sep 14,, 01:51.
                Ego Numquam

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chunder View Post
                  Read an article earlier this year that while the captain of Cowpens had retired to his quarters ill with the flu events got interesting. Here's the article.
                  The Thinking Housewife › Strange Events on the USS Cowpens

                  Edit: Reading the comments section is also worthwhile.
                  Don't agree with some of the things that Laura said. I know before that women shouldn't serve in the military but I have changed my position and my mind. Women can serve in the military and not only that, they must serve and the reason is not mainly for women's right to serve but it is in the best interests and necessity that women serve in the military. It is vital to a country's well being that women serve in the military because there is no better example of demonstrating that women serve as valuable and contributing members of a society and that they deserve equality.

                  So yes there are problems with women serving in the military but those are just teething problems and growing pains. We just have to figure out how to make it work. Yes it will take some time but we can do it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Blade,

                    Laura might have opined some thoughts, but they were well countered in the comments section - which is why I thought it was worthwhile mentioning that. I just thought that her opinions aside, her gathering of events surrounding USS Cowpens return was materially useful and went unchallenged, and enhanced upon by some senior positions in Navy who also disagreed with her conclusions. Whatever it is with that ship, it's made international news, repeatedly. Thought it might make a useful contribution and extended reading.
                    Ego Numquam

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, a couple of things.

                      First of all, I usually don't get that far through most comment sectons because all so often, it is a collection of the thoughts of any wacko with a key board. Opinionated, emotional, and without rational thought.........IMHO. As far as right or wrong of men and women together, affront to femininity, "you have other places to serve", I don't get into those battles. Mine was a different time, it is someone else's fight now. Besides, given how "treacherous" I could be, such as knowing what men like and developing into a weapon (a technique).......I probably would have been cashiered many times over.

                      Secondly, between what's in a name and one's name, one will usually find those who will make fun of one's name....especially if they don't like you. The same LDO who got on me about the armory incident turned my initials into "Top Secret" and used it as his way of tormenting me.

                      One of my nicks is Aja, "AH-JAh". My pronouciation of it came before I found out what it means but it is African for "High Priestess of Mecca" (which must put it back before 600 AD). But if someone has that name and she was around a sailor from the late 80's, she'd probably be teased about the other Aja, Barbara Holder. Same spelling, different name.

                      These days, though, it appears to be a popular name with many actresses.

                      Third, in the pictures, Lcdr Savage is short (by the way, isn't it interesting how they rake her name over the coals and yet, "Frank Savage" is a character name we still know for the leadership movie "Twelve O'Clock High") in comparison to others. I am "sure" we all want our CO's to be 6 feet tall and paragons of fitness....but that is often just not the case. I recall an Ops Officer who could have been like the late actor Victor Buono. When I was running the PFT program, there was some verbal reluctance from some of the crew that they were out there running at 0615 but how did he get away with it.

                      So everyone is not a perfect specimen, shrug, so what.

                      Fourth, one of the things I was taught in the Navy, especially during flight deck (helo) fire fighting, was to be ready to step into the next person's shoes since they may be taken out. In the early 80's, before I was commissioned (I think that was the time), I knew a former officer who had been an engineering officer on the Enterprise. During DC refresher training, he found that if he could lie down for 30 minutes every 12 hours, he could get by. Well, it worked till the last when he overslept 12 hours and the next thing he knew, he was hearing the 1MC telling the ship to come back to standard operations. Whatever he missed never came back to haunt him and he figured that the DC locker/team he was in charge of assumed that he had been taken out and carried on without him.

                      So as everyone is raking people over the coals for this incident, where's that part about a Captain training his officers to step into the next person's shoes? Isn't that one of those things that is taught in the lessons learned from the Morro Castle?

                      Finally, while indeed a LCDR is junior to a Commander, I find it interesting that at a point she is referred to as a "junior officer"......and I don't think of a Lt. Commander as a junior officer.
                      Last edited by Tamara; 29 Sep 14,, 08:04.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tamara View Post
                        Well, a couple of things.

                        First of all, I usually don't get that far through most comment sectons because all so often, it is a collection of the thoughts of any wacko with a key board. Opinionated, emotional, and without rational thought.........IMHO. As far as right or wrong of men and women together, affront to femininity, "you have other places to serve", I don't get into those battles. Mine was a different time, it is someone else's fight now. Besides, given how "treacherous" I could be, such as knowing what men like and developing into a weapon (a technique).......I probably would have been cashiered many times over.

                        Secondly, between what's in a name and one's name, one will usually find those who will make fun of one's name....especially if they don't like you. The same LDO who got on me about the armory incident turned my initials into "Top Secret" and used it as his way of tormenting me.

                        One of my nicks is Aja, "AH-JAh". My pronouciation of it came before I found out what it means but it is African for "High Priestess of Mecca" (which must put it back before 600 AD). But if someone has that name and she was around a sailor from the late 80's, she'd probably be teased about the other Aja, Barbara Holder. Same spelling, different name.

                        These days, though, it appears to be a popular name with many actresses.

                        Third, in the pictures, Lcdr Savage is short (by the way, isn't it interesting how they rake her name over the coals and yet, "Frank Savage" is a character name we still know for the leadership movie "Twelve O'Clock High") in comparison to others. I am "sure" we all want our CO's to be 6 feet tall and paragons of fitness....but that is often just not the case. I recall an Ops Officer who could have been like the late actor Victor Buono. When I was running the PFT program, there was some verbal reluctance from some of the crew that they were out there running at 0615 but how did he get away with it.

                        So everyone is not a perfect specimen, shrug, so what.

                        Fourth, one of the things I was taught in the Navy, especially during flight deck (helo) fire fighting, was to be ready to step into the next person's shoes since they may be taken out. In the early 80's, before I was commissioned (I think that was the time), I knew a former officer who had been an engineering officer on the Enterprise. During DC refresher training, he found that if he could lie down for 30 minutes every 12 hours, he could get by. Well, it worked till the last when he overslept 12 hours and the next thing he knew, he was hearing the 1MC telling the ship to come back to standard operations. Whatever he missed never came back to haunt him and he figured that the DC locker/team he was in charge of assumed that he had been taken out and carried on without him.

                        So as everyone is raking people over the coals for this incident, where's that part about a Captain training his officers to step into the next person's shoes? Isn't that one of those things that is taught in the lessons learned from the Morro Castle?

                        Finally, while indeed a LCDR is junior to a Commander, I find it interesting that at a point she is referred to as a "junior officer"......and I don't think of a Lt. Commander as a junior officer.
                        6'1" 190, bench press 300 pounds and run the mile and half in a little over nine minutes. Now, I'm a physical wreck requiring both hips and knees to be replaced. There are costs to physical fitness that go un-noticed, until it is too late.

                        Anyway, having sat in the port side chair on the bridge, there were plenty of times I felt like hammered dog s*h*i*t and still spent the bulk of my time there. I slept there, I did my paper work there, and occasionally ate there . . . most especially if a watch officer was young and inexperienced. People would tell me, "Sir, you don't look so good, why don't you go lie down?" Nope, not gonna happen. It's one of those costs of having command; to a certain extent, you have to sacrifice your private life, because above all, one needs to model the proper behavior in all things. I knew plenty of COs who got drunk at the first possible chance. I more or less quit drinking when I was a department head. Just too many bad things can happen. People have to see you and know you are in charge, otherwise it's chaos, and you get Cowpens.
                        Last edited by desertswo; 29 Sep 14,, 18:36.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                          6'1" 190, bench press 300 pounds and run the mile and half in a little over nine minutes. Now, I'm a physical wreck requiring both hips and knees to be replaced. There are costs to physical fitness that go un-noticed, until it is too late.

                          Anyway, having sat in the port side chair on the bridge, there were plenty of times I felt like hammered dog s*h*i*t and still spent the bulk of my time there. I slept there, I did my paper work there, and occasionally ate there . . . most especially if a watch officer was young and in experienced. People would tell me, "Sir, you don't look so good, why don't you go lie down?" Nope, not gonna happen. It's one of those costs of having command; to a certain extent, you have to sacrifice your private life, because above all, one needs to model the proper behavior in all things. I knew plenty of COs who got drunk at the first possible chance. I more or less quit drinking when I was a department head. Just too many bad things can happen. People have to see you and know you are in charge, otherwise it's chaos, and you get Cowpens.
                          As to the second paragraph, I've sort of been there as well when I ran a Naval Police force. My troops were my life and it really comes back to you when they start caring about you. But there were so many times when I canceled my evening affairs because one of them was having problems.

                          Equally, though, there is a certain need to show them that you have some kind of "normal" life. At least once, after a party at the Captain's, I brought my date, a civilian to my police station to show them around. It was more for me and my date but it probably did show them that I was somewhat human as well.

                          I did let people have operations and run with them but whatever happened, I was still responsible. Quickly about one. The Captain wanted to enforce the wearing of seat belts on his base. The Chief set up the operation. I was in school all week, told the Chief that it was his affair on the day of the op, the day I got back, and I would hold down the station house. Next day, someone who got ticketed called up and wanted to know in anger who was responsible for that affair and I told him I was for it was my department (back in a time when seat belt violations were a secondary offense).

                          Vast differences of course between an O-2 running a shore police force and a Captain in charge of a ship so while our views of how we let subordinates run with their duties may be different.....let me say, ONE MUST DO WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS NECESSARY FOR THE SAFETY/SECURITY OF THEIR COMMAND.

                          As far as physical fitness and the toll on the body, I think I have probably been fortunate between injury reducing how active I may have been over time and a mix of activities. But in all honesty and in relation to this subject, if the troops don't know you first, what you pick for physical fitness can be a crucial item. My being a dancer probably didn't help my leadership when I was assigned to ships. My police troops didn't know about me being a dancer until several months after I took over. As far as whether or not officers should be dancers, well, that may depend on what they do. Back then, when I read how you can tell military in civilian clothes because of they walk, stand, I started incorporating my dance moves in to my moves. It may not have been effective then....but people these days are shocked to learn I'm a Vet.

                          ..............................to say nothing or little of, back then, how I could be hand cuffed behind my back and be able to bring my hands up in front of me in under 30 seconds.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tamara
                            First of all, I usually don't get that far through most comment sectons because all so often, it is a collection of the thoughts of any wacko with a key board. Opinionated, emotional, and without rational thought.........IMHO.
                            Well, the blog has attracted the attention and comment of a few navy personnel. It's not what you read initially its the knowledge in the comments further down that seems a very worthwhile read and inline with what has been mentioned above. They appear not to be junior officers commenting either.
                            Last edited by Chunder; 29 Sep 14,, 13:06.
                            Ego Numquam

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chunder View Post
                              Well, the blog has attracted the attention and comment of a few navy personnel. It's not what you read initially its the knowledge in the comments further down that seems a very worthwhile read and inline with what has been mentioned above. They appear not to be junior officers commenting either.
                              With all due respect......so they say.

                              Comment

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