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Looking at a mid 70's TV flick on a Naval pier.............

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  • Looking at a mid 70's TV flick on a Naval pier.............

    .............................and I see a black mast, SPS-48, and WLR-1's.

    Given that from the picture and in the later 70's, there is not enough info to say cruiser or destroyer.....................

    .................how would you quickly identify it? The quickest is to say "non nuclear DLG"......but unless the audience is "old" Navy, would that make any sense to them?

    Or......would one just deny their training and say something like "Navy ships" or "Grey things"?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tamara View Post
    .............................and I see a black mast, SPS-48, and WLR-1's.

    Given that from the picture and in the later 70's, there is not enough info to say cruiser or destroyer.....................

    .................how would you quickly identify it? The quickest is to say "non nuclear DLG"......but unless the audience is "old" Navy, would that make any sense to them?

    Or......would one just deny their training and say something like "Navy ships" or "Grey things"?
    "Mast" or "mack, and on what was the "48" mounted? It will help if you can differentiate that one. There were a lot of hulls at that time that fit your description, including USS Chicago, USS Oklahoma City which was home ported in Yakusuka, as well as all of the Leahy and Belknap-class ships, not to mention the Brooke-class FFGs and Adams-class DDGs, which had AN/SPS-52 and AN/SPS-39 air search radars respectively, which both look a lot like 48s to the casual observer. The Farragut-class DLGs are also possibilities with their AN/SPS-39s, but I'm pretty sure that by that time they were all home ported on the east coast due to their notoriously short legs fuel-wise. It made them better suited to Atlantic duty where they distances traveled to deploy were not so great as the Pacific. The Ticos wouldn't have been players yet, besides which, they didn't have 48s. The AN/WLR-1 ESM/ECM antenna doesn't really help, because I can't really think of a CRUDES ship in those days (I entered active duty in 1978) that didn't have one.

    Chicago and Long Beach (which, while it had an AN/SPS-48B in the latter stages of her career, did not have top works that were painted black, as being nuclear powered, didn't have the need to hide the soot from the stack gases of conventional propulsion) never went down to the Naval Station at 32nd Street in San Diego. They always moored at NAS North Island where the carriers also berthed, which makes me think the footage you are referring to may have been shot there, given that it's only 110 miles or so to Hollywood, and a big ship like Chicago would stand out from everything else around, and at one time, you could walk right up to Gate One on 1st Street in Coronado and practically touch her. I'd bet it was Chicago on the show, but that "mast" vs. "mack" thing really would help. Chicago looked like this . . .



    Note the "mast"/"mack" thing.

    Could have also been someone up at Naval Station Long Beach, but for the life of me, other than the battleships and some fat ships, I can't recall who else was home ported up there. Rusty can help on that one.
    Last edited by desertswo; 28 Sep 14,, 17:07.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by desertswo View Post
      "Mast" or "mack, and on what was the "48" mounted? It will help if you can differentiate that one. There were a lot of hulls at that time that fit your description, including USS Chicago, USS Oklahoma City which was home ported in Yakusuka, as well as all of the Leahy and Belknap-class ships, not to mention the Brooke-class FFGs and Adams-class DDGs, which had AN/SPS-52 and AN/SPS-39 air search radars respectively, which both look a lot like 48s to the casual observer. The Farragut-class DLGs are also possibilities with their AN/SPS-39s, but I'm pretty sure that by that time they were all home ported on the east coast due to their notoriously short legs fuel-wise. It made them better suited to Atlantic duty where they distances traveled to deploy were not so great as the Pacific. The Ticos wouldn't have been players yet, besides which, they didn't have 48s. The AN/WLR-1 ESM/ECM antenna doesn't really help, because I can't really think of a CRUDES ship in those days (I entered active duty in 1978) that didn't have one.

      Chicago and Long Beach (which, while it had an AN/SPS-48B in the latter stages of her career, did not have top works that were painted black, as being nuclear powered, didn't have the need to hide the soot from the stack gases of conventional propulsion) never went down to the Naval Station at 32nd Street in San Diego. They always moored at NAS North Island where the carriers also berthed, which makes me think the footage you are referring to may have been shot there, given that it's only 110 miles or so to Hollywood, and a big ship like Chicago would stand out from everything else around, and at one time, you could walk right up to Gate One on 1st Street in Coronado and practically touch her. I'd bet it was Chicago on the show, but that "mast" vs. "mack" thing really would help. Chicago looked like this . . .



      Note the "mast"/"mack" thing.

      Could have also been someone up at Naval Station Long Beach, but for the life of me, other than the battleships and some fat ships, I can't recall who else was home ported up there. Rusty can help on that one.
      Well, it's not really a question about identifying it, just on how to call it.

      Good point about the Farragut class; I had forgotten about the Atlantic fleet "restriction". Hence, given the location, just put it down as a non nuclear, those black masts are a tell tale, Terrier CG and move on. At one point when the cast was on their story ship, the Elk River (IX-501) (movie was the first Man from Atlantis) and the Terrier FC radars could clearly be seen over their shoulders. Albany and the like, well, as tall as they were, if one could see the -48, one could probably see that bridge design.

      Curiously, though, in another shot somewhere else in the movie, there appears to be an Adams behind them. Can't see much, except the stack and a few cells of the ASROC....or were there other small boys (not something big like an Albany CG) around in the mid 70's with that kind of set up?

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      • #4
        Tamara said: Well, it's not really a question about identifying it, just on how to call it.

        Good point about the Farragut class; I had forgotten about the Atlantic fleet "restriction". Hence, given the location, just put it down as a non nuclear, those black masts are a tell tale, Terrier CG and move on. At one point when the cast was on their story ship, the Elk River (IX-501) (movie was the first Man from Atlantis) and the Terrier FC radars could clearly be seen over their shoulders. Albany and the like, well, as tall as they were, if one could see the -48, one could probably see that bridge design.

        Curiously, though, in another shot somewhere else in the movie, there appears to be an Adams behind them. Can't see much, except the stack and a few cells of the ASROC....or were there other small boys (not something big like an Albany CG) around in the mid 70's with that kind of set up?


        If that movie was the first episode of "The Man from Atlantis" starring Patrick Duffy (later more famous for his role on "Dallas") then all the Navy yard footage was shot from the Naval Station in Long Beach, CA. Being employed there since 1954 it was easy to recognize a number of things.

        Especially the USS Chicago (CG-11). And please, don't ask me about that "Mast" and goofy-looking antenna platforms that looked like a giant moth ready to launch. I had to design those monstrocities. I was thinking about putting that in Chapter 21 of my book but there were other stupid things we had to design and the person came up with those wasteful ideas might still be alive today and we are already maxed out financially in bullet proofing our house.
        Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tamara View Post
          Curiously, though, in another shot somewhere else in the movie, there appears to be an Adams behind them. Can't see much, except the stack and a few cells of the ASROC....or were there other small boys (not something big like an Albany CG) around in the mid 70's with that kind of set up?
          Rusty answered the main question, but in response to this one, yeah, the Leahy-class CGs (which were originally classified as "destroyer leaders" or "DLGs" because the Congress supposedly did not want to build any cruisers; then the name changed with a stroke of the pen), at just short of 10K tons (wikipedia says 7400 tons, but by the time I was assigned to Gridley, which was a member of the class as chief engineer, she had put on considerable weight) was smaller than the Albany-class, et al., but considerably larger than either the Adams or Farragut-classes. She had the arrangement you are alluding to; like so . . .



          Note the ASROC cells just aft of the forward missile house, or as we referred to it, "the cathedral of doom." The inside of those things was really a sight to see. The video below shows USS Horne (CG 30) putting birds on the rail and the inside of a MK-10 launcher missile house. The difference between a ship like Horn and mine is that we didn't have the MK-42 5"/54 main gun. Despite not having a main gun, being a "double ender," she was still a pretty powerful can of whipass. I was always itching to use a SM-1ER in the surface mode. The other guy wouldn't even have time to duck.



          In my view (and I admit to a certain amount of bias because I really loved that ship and crew), that design was amongst the most beautiful that Navy ever brought into service. She retained those classic destroyer lines, while being a bigger package. A fast ship designed to go in harm's way. A very friendly ride compared to an Adams-class too, which could make the crew seasick just sitting pierside. I hated eating aboard one of those things when I was on the PEB because the wardroom was all the way forward in the superstructure. You were trying to eat a slider or whatever while on a constant elevator ride.

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          • #6
            Ahhh, the days when ships like cruisers and destroyers actually had boats!

            Well, all this talk has compelled me to pull the DVD from the shelf and take another look at things.

            "Mark" and "Elizabeth" arrive at the Elk River. There appear to be a lot of mine sweepers on that pier, Agile/Aggressive/Acme class. After they are on board, astern (I think, hard to say with filming) there is a Terrier cruiser (since we've stacked the odds against it being a DDG). It has to be a Leahy class since the two ships are moored stern to stern and as small CG's go, only that class had stern launchers. Perhaps CG-23 which was shown clearly in an earlier shot when "Mark" tried to escape to sea. Of interest in that earlier shot is that there is a drilling ship in the background, perhaps the Glomar Explorer.

            When "Mark" and "Elizabeth" are on the pier, awaiting to go on board, there is that ship with the ASROC amid ships and a small stack behind them. Looking at it again, I think it may have been a FRAM because in one shot, the ship's shield (?) is mounted on a large box like side like in this shot:

            In that shot, there appears to be only one radar antennae on the forward mast. It's hard to tell but also it looks like the bridge deck housing may be a similar unclean design and I couldn't see any over the side torpedoes.
            Attached Files

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tamara View Post
              Ahhh, the days when ships like cruisers and destroyers actually had boats!

              Well, all this talk has compelled me to pull the DVD from the shelf and take another look at things.

              "Mark" and "Elizabeth" arrive at the Elk River. There appear to be a lot of mine sweepers on that pier, Agile/Aggressive/Acme class. After they are on board, astern (I think, hard to say with filming) there is a Terrier cruiser (since we've stacked the odds against it being a DDG). It has to be a Leahy class since the two ships are moored stern to stern and as small CG's go, only that class had stern launchers. Perhaps CG-23 which was shown clearly in an earlier shot when "Mark" tried to escape to sea. Of interest in that earlier shot is that there is a drilling ship in the background, perhaps the Glomar Explorer.

              When "Mark" and "Elizabeth" are on the pier, awaiting to go on board, there is that ship with the ASROC amid ships and a small stack behind them. Looking at it again, I think it may have been a FRAM because in one shot, the ship's shield (?) is mounted on a large box like side like in this shot:
              [ATTACH=CONFIG]38093[/ATTACH]
              In that shot, there appears to be only one radar antennae on the forward mast. It's hard to tell but also it looks like the bridge deck housing may be a similar unclean design and I couldn't see any over the side torpedoes.
              You may have answered your own question because their were some Gearing-class FRAM cans with ASROC amidships, still around in 1980 or so. That may well be what you saw, but they didn't have an AN/SPS-48 radar. Those are pretty distinctive looking, not to mention heavy . . . especially the 48E which actually caused USS England to nearly capsize until they got her ballasted properly.

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              • #8
                Well, we are talking two ships.

                When the car first drives on to the pier, there is the SPS-48, WLR-1 ship in the background in the picture. When the close up of the main players happens, though, then we have the midships ASROC ship across the pier behind them and the Terrier cruiser astern of the Elk River.

                The car driving on to the pier might have been a far different day.....and was probably, at least, the second unit filming.

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