ATC's and AWACS are going to be busy!!

[S2]

"I don't think there is anyway the wreckage would be left behind like when the Nighthawk went down."

I think you're correct but those killed by bombing (FAE my choice if so) while sifting wreckage immediately become local tribesmen scavenging an existence amidst a war created by western interference. Might choose instead to physically secure, remove key components and sanitize with demo.

[Doktor]

See the F-117 that went down. The USAF was able to move on with "normal" ops then, and we'd be able to do so if an F-22 went down. But I don't think there is anyway the wreckage would be left behind like when the Nighthawk went down.

I am not doubting the capacity to continue strikes even if all F-22s get grounded grounded for whatever reason.

Unlike F-117, who was in the last phase, shooting down or getting a Raptor down anywhere in Syria would be very bad news. Risky, bold move to use them, that's all.

[Operator]

I am not doubting the capacity to continue strikes even if all F-22s get grounded grounded for whatever reason.

Unlike F-117, who was in the last phase, shooting down or getting a Raptor down anywhere in Syria would be very bad news. Risky, bold move to use them, that's all.

You could have said something similar back in the Gulf War when we sent the F-117's in. At some point they have to do what they were intended for. But I get the mindset.

[Jimmy]

Now wait a minute. Back in the late-80s or early-90s, we were forbidden by none other than the CNO yet, from referring to F/A-18s as "lawn darts." Not because of their safety record, but because when viewed from underneath as they fly over, they do in fact look a lot like the late, great, but ill-considered Whammo toy. Everybody was calling them that, and the CNO, who was an Airedale at the time, became extremely urinated off about it.

I've actually never heard it used on Hornets. Just F-104s and F-16s. I really think the 104 is the king of that particular hill, though. And that's hilarious the CNO got involved.

[desertswo]

I've actually never heard it used on Hornets. Just F-104s and F-16s. I really think the 104 is the king of that particular hill, though. And that's hilarious the CNO got involved.

Oh, from what I understand, the guy was livid. For the life of me, I can't remember who it was, what year it was, or what I was doing at the time. I remember hearing about it in Subic Bay, RP, and I'm pretty sure I was chief engineer and lead TAO (when they put the chief engineer in that seat for general quarters, that tells you something about the Operations and Weapons department heads) in USS Gridley (CG 21), so it had to be 89, and we were headed home after Earnest Will/Praying Mantis. Anyway, we had to make a ship-wide announcement about it, and especially jerk a knot in the tails of our ATC and engagement controllers who live in, what was called in that class of ship, "tracker ally." They had a nasty habit of using the term on our internal comms net, but occasionally, one of them would forget to hit the switch on their NTDS console that shifted the circuit from internal to one of the tactical nets used to talk to guys in airplanes, and the whole world would hear them talking about "lawn darts." Bad juju indeed. . .

[Gun Grape]

I only heard the term being used for F-16s and AV-8As. With the Harriers being called "Carolina Lawn Darts"

[desertswo]

I only heard the term being used for F-16s and AV-8As. With the Harriers being called "Carolina Lawn Darts"

Sans the weaponry, one can see if one squints a bit, a certain resemblance. It was all to do with the profile of the airplane and nothing to do with it falling out of the sky for no good reason.

[Jimmy]

Well, if you're gonna have a nickname like that, that's probably the better way to get it.

[Operator]

I only heard the term being used for F-16s and AV-8As. With the Harriers being called "Carolina Lawn Darts"

Old read, but shares some of the early issues the 16 had. Number of F-16 crashes rises - US news - Military | NBC News Never knew 18 A/C went down in one year.

[zraver]

Britain - (voting on sending Tornado's [why not the Eurofighter?

Tornado is a perfectly good bomb truck that can actually carry a bit more in ordnance than the Euro-fighter. Plus the Tornado squadron leaders are used to the Desert, this is their 3rd war there since 1990. So why waste flight hours or risk on your newer platforms?

[Gun Grape]

I am not doubting the capacity to continue strikes even if all F-22s get grounded grounded for whatever reason.

Unlike F-117, who was in the last phase, shooting down or getting a Raptor down anywhere in Syria would be very bad news. Risky, bold move to use them, that's all.

Thats why we have a TRAP force always on standby/alert. Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel.

As stated the 117 was ready to be retired/old tech. Recovering the plane or destroying in place wasn't seen as worth the effort. I'm betting we would bring down a whole lot of hurt to either recover or BIP if it was a F-22.

[Fastam]

Tornado is a perfectly good bomb truck that can actually carry a bit more in ordnance than the Euro-fighter. Plus the Tornado squadron leaders are used to the Desert, this is their 3rd war there since 1990. So why waste flight hours or risk on your newer platforms?

The Eurofighters still aren't fully integrated with some weapons and targeting pods. Tornados had to designate during Libya.


Speaking of Hornets. Expect some CF-18s to be sent some time this week..

[Operator]

Tornado is a perfectly good bomb truck that can actually carry a bit more in ordnance than the Euro-fighter. Plus the Tornado squadron leaders are used to the Desert, this is their 3rd war there since 1990. So why waste flight hours or risk on your newer platforms?

I wasn't trying to say anything negative about the Tornado. But with the F-22 and Rafale in the skies I thought this would also be a good chance to have the EuroFighter get more combat hours. The conditions seem prime for EF pilots and A/C to get some real world experience.

[Operator]

Thats why we have a TRAP force always on standby/alert. Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel.

As stated the 117 was ready to be retired/old tech. Recovering the plane or destroying in place wasn't seen as worth the effort. I'm betting we would bring down a whole lot of hurt to either recover or BIP if it was a F-22.

Even if it was old tech by our standards, it still was tech our adversaries weren't fully utilizing. And not to get off on a tangent, but tech wise, the F-117 would be right at home today if it had to join in on the mission. Yes I know budget wise it'll never happen but I don't think the A/C by any means is outdated in terms of being able to carry out a strike.

[Albany Rifles]

[QUOTE=Operator;978239]Even if it was old tech by our standards, it still was tech our adversaries weren't fully utilizing. And not to get off on a tangent, but tech wise, the F-117 would be right at home today if it had to join in on the mission. Yes I know budget wise it'll never happen but I don't think the A/C by any means is outdated in terms of being able to carry out a strike.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, but it is outdated from the ability to sustain it.

Like the FB-111 it was a wonderful bomb truck for high threat targets....but it was a sustainment hog.