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  • Choudary arrested

    And not before time


    By Michael Holden
    LONDON (Reuters) - British police arrested nine men as part of an operation into Islamist-related militancy on Thursday, with media reporting the country's most high-profile radical Muslim preacher was among those held.
    Britain last month raised its international threat level to the second-highest classification of "severe", meaning an attack is considered highly likely, and Prime Minister David Cameron has said the Islamic State group battling for territory in Syria and Iraq poses the country's greatest ever security risk.
    Police said the arrests were not in response to any immediate threat but that the men were held on suspicion of encouraging terrorism and belonging to and supporting a banned organisation.
    "These arrests and searches are part of an ongoing investigation into Islamist-related terrorism," police said in a statement.
    The BBC and Sky News reported that one of the men held was Anjem Choudary, the former head of the now banned organisation al-Muhajiroun. It gained notoriety for staging events to commemorate the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States with leaflets that referred to the hijackers as "the Magnificent 19".
    Police declined to confirm if Choudary, who has recently spoken out against the West's intervention against Islamic State, had been held or to give further details. There was no answer from his mobile phone when contacted by Reuters.
    The men, aged between 22 and 51, were in custody at police stations in central London while 19 properties across the capital and in Stoke-on-Trent in central England were being searched.
    Choudary's followers have been linked to a number of militant plots in the past, and one of the men who hacked a British soldier to death on a London street in May last year had attended demonstrations the preacher had organised.
    Choudary has never been charged with any terrorism-related crimes.
    In 2011 his home and a community centre in east London where he used to teach were raided by counter-terrorism police. He told Reuters at the time that he had done nothing illegal.
    "The definition of terrorism is more suitable for the US/UK policy in Muslim lands than those who are removing their oppressive regimes," Choudary said in a tweet he wrote hours before the police arrests.
    "The war being waged by the US/UK & co is a war against Islam & Muslims. The objective is to take Muslims away from the Shari'ah (Islamic law)"
    Al-Muhajiroun's Syrian-born founder Omar Bakri was banished from Britain in 2005.
    (Reporting by Michael Holden; editing by Guy Faulconbridge and John Stonestreet)

  • #2
    To keep the balance from tilting in favor of the extremists, extra judicial measures needs to be adopted at times.

    Encounter killings by police
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Oracle View Post
      To keep the balance from tilting in favor of the extremists, extra judicial measures needs to be adopted at times.

      Encounter killings by police
      Here's an idea, you can have police death squads, we'll keep civilization & rule of law. Its worked pretty well for us so far.
      sigpic

      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        To keep the balance from tilting in favor of the extremists, extra judicial measures needs to be adopted at times.

        Encounter killings by police

        Apart from the fact that this is morally wrong (what if someone like Anjem Chaudhary decided who the targets should be), fake encounters are bound to be highlighted and escalated by today's proactive media. And that is a good thing

        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
        Here's an idea, you can have police death squads, we'll keep civilization & rule of law. Its worked pretty well for us so far.
        Who is "we" and "you" in this?
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
          Here's an idea, you can have police death squads, we'll keep civilization & rule of law. Its worked pretty well for us so far.
          I'd also like to keep civilization and I always favor rule of law. Having said that, these are the guys whose preachings radicalize thousands of young Muslims worldwide. There probably would be no ISIS or the support it garnered, had there been no Anjem Chaudhary to begin with. I probably am biased since I grew up amongst militancy. And I know I'm mixing issues, my point is the preachings of hatred. The best way to deal with a snake is to cut it's head off, the body falls silent. And I advocate the same thing for the 10s of militant groups in my part of the world. Not exactly a death squad, but lending a helping hand to meet their makers. They IMV do not contribute to society in any way.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by antimony View Post
            Apart from the fact that this is morally wrong (what if someone like Anjem Chaudhary decided who the targets should be), fake encounters are bound to be highlighted and escalated by today's proactive media. And that is a good thing
            Never thought I could be a target too, selected by someone else. You and BF are correct, I get it.

            So more paper work, free food and lodging for the likes of Anjem now.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by antimony View Post
              Who is "we" and "you" in this?
              Easy: "we" are the people who don't want police death squads deciding who lives & who dies without recourse to the judiciary. "You" are anyone who thinks giving police a license to murder anyone they deem unfit to live is a good idea. Simple as that.
              sigpic

              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                I'd also like to keep civilization and I always favor rule of law.
                A good start.

                Having said that, these are the guys whose preachings radicalize thousands of young Muslims worldwide. There probably would be no ISIS or the support it garnered, had there been no Anjem Chaudhary to begin with.
                Sorry, that's bollocks. Chaudhary is a nobody to people like ISIS. A useful idiot at best. What created groups like ISIS is generations of secular (and less often religious) dictatorships and wars in Nth Africa, the Middle East & further afield. Chaudhary is a publicity hound. Seen him popping up in an actual combat zone recently?

                I'm happy enough to see him banged up if he has committed a crime, but killing him would achieve nothing & most likely do more harm than good.


                I probably am biased since I grew up amongst militancy. And I know I'm mixing issues, my point is the preachings of hatred. The best way to deal with a snake is to cut it's head off, the body falls silent. And I advocate the same thing for the 10s of militant groups in my part of the world. Not exactly a death squad, but lending a helping hand to meet their makers. They IMV do not contribute to society in any way.
                I'm biased because I grew up in a period when police acting perfectly lawfully had a 'shoot first' policy and in a place where police corruption was both entrenched & endemic.

                Police in Australia have improved a lot in the past 20 years, but a shitload more people have died at the hands of police in Australia than have ever been killed by terrorists. Most of them should never have died. many of them weren't even 'criminal' in any meaningful sense. Worse, I can think of plenty of police from the past 40 years who were WAY scarier than any wannbe terrorist. Police have enough power as it is.

                I understand your fear. I live a few minutes by car from the sites of two of Australia's worst massacres (both in the mid-80s) and the last death as a result of an act of terrorism in Australia (2001ish). people have been arrested in my city planning (if only speculatively) acts of terrorism at places I visit frequently (such as the MCG during a football game). We might all be targets.

                There are dangerous people in our societies, but death squads aren't the answer. Ultimately they will create larger problems than they solve. I think you know that.
                sigpic

                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                  Easy: "we" are the people who don't want police death squads deciding who lives & who dies without recourse to the judiciary. "You" are anyone who thinks giving police a license to murder anyone they deem unfit to live is a good idea. Simple as that.
                  Fair enough, but it seems that you think that "you" have figured it out. I would like to point out that police brutality is a problem across the world. The developing nations have it the worst, but police brutality and excessive use of force (sometimes deadly) happens in all places.
                  Last edited by antimony; 26 Sep 14,, 05:28.
                  "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    I'm biased because I grew up in a period when police acting perfectly lawfully had a 'shoot first' policy and in a place where police corruption was both entrenched & endemic.

                    Police in Australia have improved a lot in the past 20 years, but a shitload more people have died at the hands of police in Australia than have ever been killed by terrorists. Most of them should never have died. many of them weren't even 'criminal' in any meaningful sense. Worse, I can think of plenty of police from the past 40 years who were WAY scarier than any wannbe terrorist. Police have enough power as it is.

                    I understand your fear. I live a few minutes by car from the sites of two of Australia's worst massacres (both in the mid-80s) and the last death as a result of an act of terrorism in Australia (2001ish). people have been arrested in my city planning (if only speculatively) acts of terrorism at places I visit frequently (such as the MCG during a football game). We might all be targets.

                    There are dangerous people in our societies, but death squads aren't the answer. Ultimately they will create larger problems than they solve. I think you know that.
                    For the record, what Oracle is referring to is not necessarily death squads, but armed police teams (which, like in other commonwealth countries, are a rarity in India) tracking down known gang members. The fact that they were armed with modern weapons instead of those SMLEs and a "take no prisoners" attitude led to several undesirable consequences because some idiot gang member decided to reach for his gun. Did fake encounters sometimes happen, I am sure they did, but that is not the crux of he problem.
                    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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                    • #11
                      I agree with Big Fella about the rule of law and acting civilized and giving everyone a fair shot.

                      Before killing them, if that is what is needed.

                      Some of the posts here are borderline closet Islamophobic and it troubles me greatly that it comes from the so called secularists.

                      Both native and foreign.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by antimony View Post
                        Fair enough, but it seems that you think that "you" have figured it out. I would like to point out that police brutality is a problem across the world. The developing nations have it the worst, but police brutality and excessive use of force (sometimes deadly) happens in all places.
                        Yes, I know.


                        Originally posted by antimony View Post
                        For the record, what Oracle is referring to is not necessarily death squads, but armed police teams (which, like in other commonwealth countries, are a rarity in India) tracking down known gang members. The fact that they were armed with modern weapons instead of those SMLEs and a "take no prisoners" attitude led to several undesirable consequences because some idiot gang member decided to reach for his gun. Did fake encounters sometimes happen, I am sure they did, but that is not the crux of he problem.
                        It was clear from the link he posted that some of those police went actively looking for opportunities to kill people, while others actually killed suspects in custody & then staged 'incidents'. Its waddling & quacking.
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                          I agree with Big Fella about the rule of law and acting civilized and giving everyone a fair shot.

                          Before killing them, if that is what is needed.

                          Some of the posts here are borderline closet Islamophobic and it troubles me greatly that it comes from the so called secularists.

                          Both native and foreign.
                          Can someone please stage an online 'encounter killing' of the troll. Its stupidity has ceased to amuse & its transparent trolling has become tiresome.
                          sigpic

                          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                            Some of the posts here are borderline closet Islamophobic and it troubles me greatly that it comes from the so called secularists.

                            Both native and foreign.
                            Oh come on mate, no one has exhibited any traits of Islamophobia here.
                            All they have done is call a terrorist a terrorist.

                            Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                              Oh come on mate, no one has exhibited any traits of Islamophobia here.
                              All they have done is call a terrorist a terrorist.
                              I'm not sure if he can even tell if he is trolling or not any more.
                              sigpic

                              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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