Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

FM 22-5 Drill & Ceremonies Obama Style

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    No, he's not. Not even back in the days of Rome. You can't be a soldier forever. You've got former military here doing civilian jobs with the same civilian concerns. We're worried about our kids, our retirement, our pensions, and our healthcare when we really actually need it. Back in the old Rome days, the legionaire is hoping for a piece of land he can farm after his service. Yeah, we think different because we lived different but our concerns are the same as everybody else.
    Agree. But that's after retirement. Here too we have certain housing societies with a large-ish mix of ex service-men. But even here (housing) by and large they have their own housing schemes and land policies etc. - which are not open to civvies. So while you do have a lot of ex service men doing typical jobs after retirement on civvy street (management, administration, security, etc.), they are still the minority. And mainly the officer cadre. The jawaans (foot soldiers) mostly go back to their villages.

    I do understand the need to keep the soldiers separate during active service. Civilian life / intermingling could dull their edge. Maybe its by design.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
      The jawaans (foot soldiers) mostly go back to their villages.
      And what? They don't go shopping? They don't go out to eat? They don't worry about their futures? They don't have kids?

      Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
      I do understand the need to keep the soldiers separate during active service. Civilian life / intermingling could dull their edge. Maybe its by design.
      No, it's just easier. Imagining moving every 3 years and relocating your entire family. It's a hell of a lot easier to know that your kid is already registered in the new school and that her education will continue and that she will lose nothing or is behind when you pop her in her new school right in the middle of the school year. So that you can concentrate on your job instead of your home life.
      Chimo

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        And what? They don't go shopping? They don't go out to eat? They don't worry about their futures? They don't have kids?
        I'm sure they do all of that. They come from farmer stock, and go back to being farmers for the main part. Or are absorbed into the private security agencies as guards, supervisors, etc.

        No, it's just easier. Imagining moving every 3 years and relocating your entire family. It's a hell of a lot easier to know that your kid is already registered in the new school and that her education will continue and that she will lose nothing or is behind when you pop her in her new school right in the middle of the school year. So that you can concentrate on your job instead of your home life.
        Why can't armies stay stationed in the area they draw their soldiers from? Why do they need to keep moving every 3 years? I can understand for the higher ranks. But the soldiers (in India they are still mostly homogenous regional regiments) by and large can easily remain in one place and still do what they do. Why the 3 year need to keep moving?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
          I'm sure they do all of that. They come from farmer stock, and go back to being farmers for the main part. Or are absorbed into the private security agencies as guards, supervisors, etc.
          In other words, they have lives outside the armies and concerns just like everybody else. Soldiers are only outside the civilian population when they're soldiering. That's it. Once back in, we have the same concerns like everybody else.

          Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
          Why can't armies stay stationed in the area they draw their soldiers from? Why do they need to keep moving every 3 years? I can understand for the higher ranks. But the soldiers (in India they are still mostly homogenous regional regiments) by and large can easily remain in one place and still do what they do. Why the 3 year need to keep moving?
          How are you going to fight Pakistan from Bengal?
          Chimo

          Comment


          • #35
            Btw, this question is mainly for LT / DCL, but other non-Indian soldiers can advise as well am sure.

            What is the correct response for a civilian (like me) when ex service men salute him and say "Jai Hind saab" (Hail India / Victory to India sir)?

            I acknowledge them by nodding, and if I am close enough I say Jai Hind back to them as well. Sometimes with a wave of my hands if I am in my car .....

            Should I also salute? What is the accepted civvy protocol?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              How are you going to fight Pakistan from Bengal?
              But once you post the unit, it usually stays there. For years on end from what I have seen. But the personnel keep moving. Why?

              Comment


              • #37
                So you spread your expertise and train the new guys what to expect when it is their turn at the front.
                Chimo

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                  Should I also salute? What is the accepted civvy protocol?
                  Shake their hands and say thank you for your service.
                  Chimo

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                    But once you post the unit, it usually stays there. For years on end from what I have seen. But the personnel keep moving. Why?
                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    So you spread your expertise and train the new guys what to expect when it is their turn at the front.
                    Sated buddha, think of it this way. You are orienting more people to the area in which they may operate in should conflict break out.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                      Btw, this question is mainly for LT / DCL, but other non-Indian soldiers can advise as well am sure.

                      What is the correct response for a civilian (like me) when ex service men salute him and say "Jai Hind saab" (Hail India / Victory to India sir)?

                      I acknowledge them by nodding, and if I am close enough I say Jai Hind back to them as well. Sometimes with a wave of my hands if I am in my car .....

                      Should I also salute? What is the accepted civvy protocol?
                      I find it interesting that ex servicemen salute. Are they in uniform?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Wow, that was an interesting exchange. In fact, it would seem the situation in India is even more well defined than here in the States.

                        That aside, I highly recommend Australian Colleen McCullough's "Masters of Rome" series of books. Professionally she was a Ph.D., Harvard employed bioligist working on various medical uses for this and that microbe, but she was also a very well read, if amateur Classicist. She created a form of historical fiction based around the famous figures of Republican/Imperial Rome. Her history is solid, and she gives fictional life to characters like Julius Caesar that is probably pretty close to the mark in terms of their personal psychology. The point is, these Generals who the Legions proclaimed "Emperator," were more than just Generals. To rise to those positions as Patricians in the Republic, they had to prove their mettle as lawyers, engineers, legislators, and THEN they get to go out and govern a province, and basically rape it for all its material wealth, both living and not, as that was the payoff for having done all that stuff back in Rome. Some of them turned out to be good Generals in the field, and others not so much. Caesar had a knack for soldiering, Marcus Licinius Crassus did not, and lost his head for it.

                        I was turned onto these great reads by one of my Joint Operations Professors at the Naval War College. She was a CIA Station Chief seconded to the War College as her parents in Boston were moving on to the next world, and the Agency gave her an opportunity to be with them. The thing is, she was an American who got her BA, MA, Ph.Ds all at Oxford in Ancient European History. She told me, "Mike, if Caesar, et al. wasn't like what McCullough wrote, he was very close." That was enough for me, and I was hooked. If you haven't read them, you really must.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by chanjyj View Post
                          I find it interesting that ex servicemen salute. Are they in uniform?
                          Sir, they don't. Nor do they say stuff like 'Jai Hind'. When lower ranked ex-defense personal get a job with private entities, they do make sure company protocols are followed. I was hounded a couple of times for forgetting my company ID card, never did they salute me or chant 'Jai Hind'. And I'm in the industry for over 13 years. These guys are professionals, they would not waste a salute for mongrels like me nor would for SB. Why lie sooooooo much?
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                            Btw, this question is mainly for LT / DCL, but other non-Indian soldiers can advise as well am sure.

                            What is the correct response for a civilian (like me) when ex service men salute him and say "Jai Hind saab" (Hail India / Victory to India sir)?

                            I acknowledge them by nodding, and if I am close enough I say Jai Hind back to them as well. Sometimes with a wave of my hands if I am in my car .....

                            Should I also salute? What is the accepted civvy protocol?
                            If an ex-defence professional does that, he ain't no defence professional. He's a fake. Indian defence forces guys are too proud to waste salutes, and that too when they have retired/taken voluntary retirement. They don't suck up to nobody. My cousin is an ex-IAF guy, and he still bullies me, talk about him saluting me and he would beat my ass anyday without regrets. Please stop with the lies, that's a request, or I can bring relative proof, unless you do so.
                            Last edited by Oracle; 30 Sep 14,, 19:12.
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              If an ex-defence professional does that, he ain't no defence professional. He's a fake. Indian defence forces guys are too proud to waste salutes, and that too when they have retired/taken voluntary retirement. They don't suck up to nobody. My cousin is an ex-IAF guy, and he still bullies me, talk about him saluting me and he would beat my ass anyday without regrets. Please stop with the lies, that's a request, or I can bring relative proof, unless you do so.
                              I get saluted entering bases in the US, and I'm retired. I say, "Thank you, and have a good day," and move on.

                              The thing is, I went from this:



                              To this:



                              And my hair is even longer than that now. It occasionally causes gate guards, etc. to do a double take when looking at my ID card, and then me, and back again. I've even had them ask me questions about my business on base. I had a US Border Patrol Agent at one of their highway checkpoints here in Arizona ask me why "Jerry Garcia was driving a car with a 'Colonel's' sticker on the windshield?" ("Captain", "Colonel", it's all the same) We both had a good laugh over that when I told him I was Jerry reincarnated, and if he had a guitar available, I'd show him. Why do I have long hair? Because I can.:tankie:
                              Last edited by desertswo; 30 Sep 14,, 22:38.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                If an ex-defence professional does that, he ain't no defence professional. He's a fake. Indian defence forces guys are too proud to waste salutes, and that too when they have retired/taken voluntary retirement. They don't suck up to nobody. My cousin is an ex-IAF guy, and he still bullies me, talk about him saluting me and he would beat my ass anyday without regrets. Please stop with the lies, that's a request, or I can bring relative proof, unless you do so.


                                *sighs*
                                On one occassion, I had soldiers salute me and shout something when I accompanied my father who was a retired Captain to visit his long time friend who became a two star general at his compound. I was startled and didn't hear what they said but I nodded and waved with a thumbs up. Nothing to it. Just courtesy.

                                Don't make it out to be anything more than it has to be.
                                Attached Files

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X