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  • #91
    But it is hero worship and this push to promote him to freedom fighter will make him untouchable.

    The effect is to ignore the context and concentrate only on the man. This does not happen with our other freedom fighters.

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    • #92
      You realize that had we chosen to get armed and supplied and trained and even led by the Germans and/or the Japanese, the world as we know it today could well have been a VERY different place?

      See the sizes of the wartime fighting armies the other big players put up.

      See what our population was - even then.

      2.5 million was a drop in the ocean.

      Netaji always had the right idea. It was never our war, and if we did enter it, we should have entered it and shed our blood for ourselves and only ourselves. First and only.

      Instead we were cheated and lied to and manipulated by the same bastards who have ruled us ever since.

      A lot of 1947 is still unfinished. The country is waking up. Karma is going to be a bitch.
      Last edited by sated buddha; 13 Sep 14,, 11:07.

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      • #93
        I missed this post of yours as I was on the phone at the time (small screen, big thumb - stil the same).

        Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
        A good performance. Do bear in mind that Modi has a lot of admiration for Abe.
        I think its mutual. Strong nationalists very aware and respectful of their heritage and roots.

        Now if McCain was in office we'd see similar. McCain on a recent visit was all praise. You should check out his talk.

        Then pray the Republicans find their way out of the wilderness in 2016.
        I do pray that the Americans bring the Republicans back to power. However, I think Hillary will have her shot at glory first. Well, Modi ji has enough on his plate till then. If America is not in the mood, it can (and should) wait. Asia with China, Japan, Russia, and Australia, have a lot and more to offer till then. I'd like to see how he goes with both Iran and Israel as well.

        So far i've noticed he's giving back in charm offensives what we've seen from other leaders. Aussie PM did a good number recently. If Modi can give Shariff's mum a shawl than Abbot will give Modi's mother one too
        Sharif has been a disappointment. I always looked at him as a strongman.

        And this will not go unnoticed by some of the more hardline vocal minority of the incumbent japanese LDP.
        Exactly. Sometimes its good for the world to see us as brainless Hindutva twits. Zor ka jhatka dheere se (hard impact softly)

        It's an accident of history that India can have a connection with the IJA in this way.
        If it works, it will be milked. Friendship and trust is based on past history and commonalities. We need to find them and brush the dust off to bring back the sparkle.

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        • #94
          Indians denied permission to participate in (ANZAC) march in South Australia

          Melbourne: A group of retired 15 Indian defence officers in south Australia have been denied permission to participate independently in an annual march that commemorates the day 15,000 Indians with Australian and New Zealand forces landed in Turkey to fight during World War-I.

          While ANZAC Day Committee Chair, the organisers, have invited the group to join the centenary ANZAC March next year, the group known as ‘SA Indian defence officers club’ have sought their inclusion under Indian ex-servicemen contingent every year which has not been accepted.

          They were refused on the grounds that the march is only for the ANZACS and those foreign veterans who fought with them as allies. India was a British colony when the war was fought.

          “We took the case with Director of Veterans Affairs for us to participate in the March held every year after realising that in other states it was happening,” said Retired Major General Vikram Madan of the Club.

          “We already knew Indian veterans marching in WA and Victoria and for last two years we were aware of NSW Indian veterans marching,” he said.

          He said that request when formally taken up with Director of Veterans Affairs, also the Chair of ANZAC Day Committee, was refused and they were offered that they march in next of kin category if they, in the Indian community, had a direct descendant of a soldier at Gallipoli.

          “We would like to march next year and onwards under Commonwealth countries like in other states where Indian representation has been marching as Indian ex servicemen contingent,” Madan said.

          “It is a request to Returned & Services League (RSL) and organisers to allow us to pay homage to those Indian soldiers who died along with ANZACs in Gallipoli,” he said, adding that if allowed the group would be marching in civilian clothes with medals.

          Meanwhile, RSL of Australia (SA Branch) which organises all major ANZAC Day activities in the state per an appointed ANZAC Day Committee, said, “Indian veterans of conflicts in which Australia and India served as allies have always been welcome to participate in our ANZAC Day March.”

          RSL said in a statement that an invitation to join the ANZAC Day March was extended to the broader Indian community in 2012 but added that there was no place for simply marching as a group because the group have served in the armed forces of a country with which Australia were friends.

          “In the last three years ‘British India’ has appeared on the ANZAC Day Order of March, a sign has been prepared and a Army cadet nominated to carry that sign,” the statement said said.

          About 15,000 Indians served alongside the 50,000 Australians at Gallipoli in Turkey, helping maintain supply lines over an eight-month offensive. Around 1500 Indians were killed in the fighting.

          Indians denied permission to participate in march in South Aus - Free Press Journal

          Sad. But expected. When you fight someone else's war.

          Johnny's fight is done.

          No place for Johnny now?
          Last edited by sated buddha; 13 Sep 14,, 12:22.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by antimony View Post
            BF,

            It is not about you or me individually. I realize you are not a great fan of Churchill, and I don't hero worship Bose as much as I used to, especially since coming to know of the Japanese love for "Indian cooking" (gross and offensive pun intended). However, I am sure our societies have a different view, hence my POV about different historical perspective remain.
            it is a matter of some pride to me that over the past generation a segment of my country has made a concerted effort to come to terms with its past. Things that were rarely discussed or even known when I was young are now taught in schools. it is a matter of great sadness to me that people, many of them prominent & powerful, continue to fight that attempt to face our past. Conservative nationalists aren't the only ones responsible for this, but they are in the vanguard. it seems to be that way in a great many places. Sadly too many nations struggle to deal with their past head on. More's the pity.
            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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            • #96
              Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
              You realize that had we chosen to get armed and supplied and trained and even led by the Germans and/or the Japanese, the world as we know it today could well have been a VERY different place?

              See the sizes of the wartime fighting armies the other big players put up.

              See what our population was - even then.

              2.5 million was a drop in the ocean.

              Netaji always had the right idea. It was never our war, and if we did enter it, we should have entered it and shed our blood for ourselves and only ourselves. First and only.

              Instead we were cheated and lied to and manipulated by the same bastards who have ruled us ever since.

              A lot of 1947 is still unfinished. The country is waking up. Karma is going to be a bitch.
              Dear God! I think you actually wish the Nazis & Japanese militarists had won. I guess it fits with everything else you have written here.
              sigpic

              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                Dear God! I think you actually wish the Nazis & Japanese militarists had won. I guess it fits with everything else you have written here.
                I wish WE had won.

                A lot earlier than we finally did.

                BF, no place for Johnny anymore?

                Slim must be squirming in his grave.

                Btw is it true that you guys are still divided (50:50 from what I've been told) over whether to cast off the British yoke or not? About time you made up your mind don't you think?
                Last edited by sated buddha; 13 Sep 14,, 12:51.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                  Seems Churchill does not have too many friends in Australia and New Zealand as well as India. They openly agree he was a racist and used the "colonials" lie the Aussies and the New Zealanders as just so much disposable cannon fodder. No surprise then where we brown skins came in the pecking order if the white colonies were used thus.
                  Churchill continues to have many fans & admirers in Australia and the account you have been given above is junk history. ANZAC soldiers did not always get the respect they deserved, but the British were no more profligate with our lives than with their own. That is a relatively recent myth and was not a sentiment that was strong at the time. British tactics & strategies led to heavy casualties among all the troops under their command. ANZAC troops were often given difficult assignments because they proved themselves to be very skilled. That was not inherent, but a result of being an all-volunteer force that was able to learn lessons well. Canadian forces had a similar record. We were also quite well led.

                  There are a lot of myths circulating about WW1 & Churchill. The Gallipoli operation was disgracefully conceived & planned, but the vast majority of troops there were British & French. They used the same tactics we did & had there same results - lots of dead bodies. Australia & its soldiers were actually impatient to get into the war at this point. We were where we wanted to be. More fool us.

                  Oh, Churchill lost his job as a result of this. He ended up leaving Parliament, joining the army and serving for a time on the Western Front, where he exhibited considerable personal bravery. The man had his flaws, but cowardice wasn't among them. How many senior politicians do you know who decide to walk out of their safe offices & serve on the frontline?
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                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    it is a matter of some pride to me that over the past generation a segment of my country has made a concerted effort to come to terms with its past. Things that were rarely discussed or even known when I was young are now taught in schools. it is a matter of great sadness to me that people, many of them prominent & powerful, continue to fight that attempt to face our past. Conservative nationalists aren't the only ones responsible for this, but they are in the vanguard. it seems to be that way in a great many places. Sadly too many nations struggle to deal with their past head on. More's the pity.
                    Unfortunately for India, the congress government which was in power for the last 6 decades had done a good job of praising only leadership from it's own party. Many hero's are forgotten or wiped from the memory of India because they belonged in the opposite camp. Anyway times are changing in India and hopefully things are much different from now on.

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                    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post

                      Ok, I take it you mean the INA.
                      Yes , sorry I was posting it quickly without re-reading it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                        I wish WE had won
                        You did win SB, you just haven't worked that out yet.

                        A lot earlier than we finally did.
                        Fine with me, but not that way. Wishing for Nazi Germany & Imperial Japan to arm India IS wishing for them to win WW2.

                        BF, no place for Johnny anymore?
                        I like you SB. I really do. Stupid people without a hint of self awareness who stand for everything I despise make me happy. They make me laugh.

                        In the past the RSL were notorious for their conservative & sometimes bombastic nationalism, narrow mindedness & racism (though the latter has largely dissipated). They are also famous for holding grudges about past mistreatment, though they at least have the excuse that they personally suffered the mistreatment. In other words, they are from the same political cesspit as you. It is funny to see people get angry at the reflection in the mirror.

                        They are also notorious for being conservative with the rules about who does & does not march. I know of Australian combat veterans who have been refused the right to march because they didn't want to follow RSL rules. Personally I think they are wrong, but I've never been much of a fan of ANZAC day parades. Got that from my Grandfather, who rarely marched.

                        Slim must be squirming in his grave.
                        Yes, the thought that a collaborator who led troops against him & actively aided the armies of a nation that so mistreated his men is being venerated as a hero would probably make him sick. I suspect his solution would be to turn people responsible for such insults over the Indian soldiers under his command. They knew how to deal with such men.

                        Btw is it true that you guys are still divided (50:50 from what I've been told) over whether to cast off the British yoke or not? About time you made up your mind don't you think?
                        We've been an independent nation for 113 years SB. I realise that you aren't the sharpest bowling ball in the rack, but I would have thought even you would have worked that our by now. I just keep overestimating you.
                        Last edited by Bigfella; 13 Sep 14,, 13:20.
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                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                        • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                          Churchill continues to have many fans & admirers in Australia and the account you have been given above is junk history.
                          The man I got it from is one of your nation's leading Biochemists. A very brilliant and well read man, who continually astonishes many of us with how much he knows about different peoples and cultures around the world. You are pretty quick with your judgments. What do you do for a living if you don't mind sharing? You come across as highly educated and erudite yourself.

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                          • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                            The man I got it from is one of your nation's leading Biochemists. A very brilliant and well read man, who continually astonishes many of us with how much he knows about different peoples and cultures around the world. You are pretty quick with your judgments. What do you do for a living if you don't mind sharing? You come across as highly educated and erudite yourself.
                            I've got an honours degree in Politics with a minor in Sociology from one of Australia's leading universities & another honours degree in pure History and a partially completed PhD in History from one of the most respected history departments in the English speaking world. I've been reading history at an adult level since my early teens & have had several academically refereed articles published. I've also given occasional lectures in my chosen field for the History Department I mentioned & presented numerous papers. I'm currently consulting on a film about Australian history.

                            My quick judgements are based on decades of reading & paying attention. I'd recommend both to you if I thought there was any point.

                            I'm sure your biochemist friend is a smart man. So am I, and history is my field.
                            sigpic

                            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                              I'm sure your biochemist friend is a smart man. So am I, and history is my field.
                              Thank you. That is most impressive.

                              History depends greatly on the one writing it and the one telling it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                                You realize that had we chosen to get armed and supplied and trained and even led by the Germans and/or the Japanese, the world as we know it today could well have been a VERY different place?

                                See the sizes of the wartime fighting armies the other big players put up.

                                See what our population was - even then.

                                2.5 million was a drop in the ocean.

                                Netaji always had the right idea. It was never our war, and if we did enter it, we should have entered it and shed our blood for ourselves and only ourselves. First and only.

                                Instead we were cheated and lied to and manipulated by the same bastards who have ruled us ever since.
                                Netaji (bless his patriotic heart) had the wrong idea because he threw his lot in with monsters. I don't know about you but I don't much fancy beng cooked or used as raw material for soap.

                                Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                                A lot of 1947 is still unfinished. The country is waking up. Karma is going to be a bitch.
                                How ? Modi is going to colonize Britain?
                                "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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