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Thread: Japan vows to invest $35 billion over 5 years in India

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    China got no leverage as far as India is concerned, considering there are strict entry barriers for Chinese investments.

    Gotta go and attend a barbecue. Tomorrow would be next, this day will die tonight.
    I was referring to Indian leverage over China, in the forn of Indo-Japanese strategic closeness. I would like to see most of the barriers barring telecom and other strategic assets removed to be honest. The multiplier effect from all this investment will boost growth, and offest the effect of the deficit left by the previous Government.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duellist View Post
    Double Edge,

    I'd imagine there's more developments to come, from the rhetoric between the two, and more. The key issues are the nuclear liability law and the strong opposition to Indian nuclear testing, particularly from the Japanese.
    And that is a problem as we're not willing to foreclose that option. A test adds to deterrence value if and when its deemed necessary. The tests in '98 were highly controversial not only outside India but also within. But the net effect is it improved our deterrence posture.

    I doubt India would have been in a position to accept any nuke deal without those tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duellist View Post
    The real significance of these developments is that the Modi government seems to understand how to employ regional rivalries and foreign commercial interests in India's interests, rather than allowing India to be swept up in the undercurrents of other powers strategies. Very good start, and it may lead to the boost in infrastructure that leads to Chinese growth in about 2 years.
    Can't have Chinese growth without Chinese. Need to attract investments from them as well. They've given Modi red carpet treatment in the past, he needs to build further on that.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    And that is a problem as we're not willing to foreclose that option. A test adds to deterrence value if and when its deemed necessary. The tests in '98 were highly controversial not only outside India but also within. But the net effect is it improved our deterrence posture.

    I doubt India would have been in a position to accept any nuke deal without those tests.


    Can't have Chinese growth without Chinese. Need to attract investments from them as well. They've given Modi red carpet treatment in the past, he needs to build further on that.
    Further testing may be necessary to refine warhead designs, but none of India's adversaries will risk the possibility that an Agni is carrying a dud fusion warhead- deterrence is adequate. I wouldn't say testing is a strategic priority for you right now. Power and infrastructure are.

    Getting investments is as much about oversight and execution on the Indian side as much as red carpet treatment for prospective Chinese business partners. The PM has a good record on that in Gujurat...let us see if he can replicate it India wide.

  4. #34
    Senior Contributor commander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    See, what I said? You really are emotional.

    What is it that you want to be done? You want the CEOs of companies to be lynched? Hanged? Sentenced for life in prison? What?

    Disasters happen, be it industrial, natural or man-made. Last year in Uttarakhand flash floods, tens of people died, should we then have lynched one or the other God from a population of 33 crore? INS Sindhurakshak sank after explosion caused by fire on board, should we have lynched the Navy chief? Scores of people die in India every year due to Railway accidents, who should have been lynched then? The Union Railway Minister or the people who died on the tracks as the Railways have the Right of way?

    Here, Cancer behind 70% deaths in India's atomic energy hubs. Who's to blame?

    IIRC, you have started working in the IT industry right? What does your TL say about bugs? Can you provide a code that is 100% error free? No you can't. You do your best and expect SLA's have been met. The same way industrial plants are designed and built by humans. There is just no way that it can be 100% error free. Japan is a technology superpower, and even with the highest standards of safety, they had the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

    You have taken up the Bhopal Gas leak, but have failed to provide a way on how to go about disasters as such. For starters, we cannot go about hanging Businessmen for a disaster. The punishment part comes last after diligent investigation. The immediate need in case of disasters of any kind is rehabilitation of the victims and monetary compensation. Right now, our laws need to be tweaked to make our country one of the friendliest investor destinations. The correct way would be to ensure safeguards of the highest degree when a(any) plant is set-up. Compensatory details worked out and included in the contract incase of unforeseen accidents. And when accidents do happen, it needs to be investigated who's at fault. It might come to light that it was the technician who sat on an issue instead of reporting it to the higher-ups or a mice who ate through cables. For all reasons, laws need to be invoked if someone's at fault.

    And as I have provided in post # 28, if anyone has to be blamed than it should have been the guys on duty that unfortunate night in the plant (after a thorough investigation), then the GoI, then the GoI controlled/Nationalised banks, then the Indians who had a stake in the company, and lastly the CEO (if it can be proved he sat over safety issues). We don't have to look too far for best practices, let's look at USFDA who have fined Sun Pharma and Ranbaxy as an example.

    Oracle, I get your point , never did I ask for them to be lynched or hanged or stoned. I only asked them to be brought under justice, let the judges be the judges and decide what should be done. All I am saying is there should be some sort of accountability and one shouldn't just wash hands when the shit hits the fan , when the shit is theirs.

  5. #35
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duellist View Post
    Further testing may be necessary to refine warhead designs, but none of India's adversaries will risk the possibility that an Agni is carrying a dud fusion warhead- deterrence is adequate. I wouldn't say testing is a strategic priority for you right now. Power and infrastructure are.
    Its not about now but rather at all as in never again. That's the sticking point. Not ready to sign CTBT and that is what the Japanese are alluding to.

    Agree there is no need for a test now and hope there is no need for a test for a long time to come. The next two decades i think will be easy ie world courting India. A unique geo-political sweet spot. After that, well maybe its ambitious to predict what will or won't happen even before that.

    A strong India isn't seen as a bad thing. well some might disagree but overall worldwide its perceived as a peaceful rise. But we like to take our own time getting there

    Quote Originally Posted by Duellist View Post
    Getting investments is as much about oversight and execution on the Indian side as much as red carpet treatment for prospective Chinese business partners. The PM has a good record on that in Gujurat...let us see if he can replicate it India wide.
    Certainly, walking the talk. Lots of grandiose statement have been made, no red tape, instead red carpet blah blah. Am optimistic for now.

    Am very interested to see how we approach China in this regard. yes, upping one sided trade to higher figures is all well & good but is there a possibility to broaden relations beyond. There is resistance in both camps about this. The UPA had historical baggage that got in the way, Modi offers the chance for a reset.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Sep 14, at 00:13.

  6. #36
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Have you guys followed the talks shows around the "no red tape, yes red carpet?" comment?

    There is a lot of talk around how bureaucrats will now sign off on files quickly and give prompt clearances. No one seems to be talking about why so many clearances are required in the first place.

    Streamlining a process, still means the existence of red tape, that is now getting unravelled slightly more quickly. I my view, the government should try and make the processes so that businesses and investors can help themselves, without the need to get bureacracy involved at all
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post

    Streamlining a process, still means the existence of red tape, that is now getting unravelled slightly more quickly. I my view, the government should try and make the processes so that businesses and investors can help themselves, without the need to get bureacracy involved at all
    Not going to happen, Crony capitalism especially in a country like India is a great threat.

    That said, I expect him to streamline it to a great extent.

    I am more interested, if the Japanese would participate with Soryu Class in the Project 75I Submarine project.

    Good way for the Japanese to earn some forex back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defcon5 View Post
    Not going to happen, Crony capitalism especially in a country like India is a great threat.
    Red tape is the cause of crony capitalism and not the solution. An Ambani can do whatever he wants because he has all the bureaucrats/politicians in his pocket. But an honest businessman would get 100 hurdles before he can accomplish anything.
    You want crony capitalism to go, then cut loose the red tape.

  9. #39
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Have you guys followed the talks shows around the "no red tape, yes red carpet?" comment?

    There is a lot of talk around how bureaucrats will now sign off on files quickly and give prompt clearances. No one seems to be talking about why so many clearances are required in the first place.
    Relics of a state controlled economy.

  10. #40
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    I think it was a virtuoso performance by Modi ji all around.

    Yes the commercial and strategic aspects were important. But the smaller carefully thought out and planned nuances were not missed either.

    The pure shweta (white) ensemble for the visit to the Buddhist shrine.

    The gifting of the Bhagvad Gita to their Emperor.

    The drums were a class act. He seemed totally at home. Was half expecting him to break into a few dandiya steps as well.

    The ease with which he bonded their highly ritualized tea ceremony to his own humble beginings as a tea seller. (he really loves to milk this one - thanks in no small part to pompous old farts of the Congress!)

    The special meeting with Saichiro Misumi and the reverence and genuine warmth shown. This coming close on the heels of the Indian government wanting to confer on Col. Nizamuddina, the 114-year-old former INA officer and close aide of Netaji, the title of Freedom Fighter officially.

    Attachment 37913

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi met 99-year-old Saichiro Misumi, Netaji's oldest living associate in Japan, in Tokyo, Japan on September 02, 2014.

    The meeting was rare and poignant - the Indian Prime Minister kneeling down to greet the 99-year-old Japanese aide of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, in Tokyo, Japan.

    In the photo PM Narendra Modi is seen peering into the eyes of Saichiro Misumi and then warmly clasping his hands. "Poignant moment! PMOIndia reaches out to Netaji's oldest living associate in Japan the 99 year old Saichiro Misumi," said a tweet by Ministry of External Affairs Ministry spokesman Syed Akabaruddin.

    Earlier in the day, Modi ji at a function in the Japan capital, spoke about Misumi, saying there was a man in Japan who still vividly remembered all details about Netaji.

    This was Modi ji's second public tryst with an old comrade of Netaji. On May 8, during the Lok Sabha election campaign, Colonel Nizamuddin shared the stage with Modi ji at a rally in Varanasi. Modi ji had stooped and reverently touched the war veteran's feet at the time.

    Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose was the founder of the Indian National Army (INA) that fought the British with help from the Japanese in India during the Second World War. Netaji's ashes are enshrined to this day in the Renkoji Temple in Tokyo city.

    Attachment 37914

    Incidentally, as part of my work, I've had the opportunity to interact closely with both Japanese as well as Germans. While the Germans are more philosophical about the whole WW saga, there is a distinct impression one gets from the younger Japanese lot, even though (till they get comfortable with you - regardless of beaming smiles and ever-bowing heads) they pretend to be non-committal, that they are increasingly resentful of the fact that they are not free to openly pay respect to the memory of their war veterans. And they are REALLY tired of being "sorry" - like a national burden passed down from father to son to grandson.

    Respect for ones elders and departed is very strongly Asian. That and Japan's growing nationalism is something which Modi ji has sensed and caught on to. It is the added fillip that was needed (additional to China, etc.) to bring the countries together, as India increasingly sheds its self-deprecating self-flagellating image of the past decade and growing nationalism and pride in one's heritage and roots sweeps the nation.
    Last edited by sated buddha; 12 Sep 14, at 13:45.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sated buddha View Post

    Incidentally, as part of my work, I've had the opportunity to interact closely with both Japanese as well as Germans. While the Germans are more philosophical about the whole WW saga, there is a distinct impression one gets from the younger Japanese lot, even though (till they get comfortable with you - regardless of beaming smiles and ever-bowing heads) they pretend to be non-committal, that they are increasingly resentful of the fact that they are not free to openly pay respect to the memory of their war veterans. And they are REALLY tired of being "sorry" - like a national burden passed down from father to son to grandson.
    And so? It's not our problem if their feelings are hurt because Tojo was a moron and Hirohito was spineless. They made their bed, and let them lie in it.

  12. #42
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
    And so? It's not our problem if their feelings are hurt because Tojo was a moron and Hirohito was spineless. They made their bed, and let them lie in it.
    The problem is that, unlike the Germans, they have never truly accepted the evil in what they did. Younger Japanese resent because they do not understand. They are paying a price for their parents & grandparents failing to do what Germans did generations ago.

    All that Modi appears to have missed was a trip to the Yakasuni shrine to pay respects to the patrons of his hero. Maybe next time.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  13. #43
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    Scanning the Japanese newspapers

    Saichiro Misumi? Who? Netaji Bose, who? Never heard of them.
    Chimo

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Scanning the Japanese newspapers

    Saichiro Misumi? Who? Netaji Bose, who? Never heard of them.
    Netaji in India means Subhas Chandra Bose who was a Nationalist and took the Military path to liberate India against British rule.He was with Mahatma Gandhi until he decided to have a separate path towards freedom.He founded the Azad Hind Fauz or Free Indian Army.

    He is revered as a great leader and inspiration to a lot of Indians.

    Neta means Leader.
    Ji is a respect and means like Sir.

    Attachment 37917
    Last edited by Batista; 12 Sep 14, at 16:39.

  15. #45
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batista View Post
    Netaji in India means Subhas Chandra Bose who was a Nationalist and took the Military path to liberate India against British rule.He was with Mahatma Gandhi until he decided to have a separate path towards freedom.He founded the Azad Hind Fauz or Free Indian Army.

    He is revered as a great leader and inspiration to a lot of Indians.

    Neta means Leader.
    Ji is a respect and means like Sir.

    Attachment 37917
    Just search the last vitriol filled thread between OOE and Sated B.
    He knows who Bose is, he just doesn't think he's fit to shine the shoes of Slim.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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