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Rotherham child abuse scandal: 1,400 children exploited, report finds

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  • #61
    As far as I am aware Australia has had compulsory voting since the early 20s. As you can probably guess I am a strong supporter primarily because it forces all political parties to at least consider in passing the needs and opinions of non-aligned voters and not just the narrow concerns and demands of their own party members. As a result it tends to moderate the more extreme ideological tenancies of some sections of the major parties because they know that if they go to hard to the right or left on some issues they will loose the support of the majority of voters who tend to nest in the center.

    Which means every time I watch American elections and the way both sides of politics seem to try and discourage voter registration and put hurdles in the way of registering (that is if the likely outcome isn't t going to favor their side of course ) I get very depressed. Sometimes I think the political elites of the US, which after all likes to think of itself as the greatest democracy in the world would be quite happy if everyone but registered party members simply weren't allowed to vote - you know, just sit back, watch television, and leave the political decision making to the 'grown ups' who know what their doing.
    Last edited by Monash; 07 Nov 14,, 08:50.
    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by troung View Post
      Two men allegedly show up to stop the alleged abuse of their daughters and end up in jail themselves. Even assuming there isn't more to that story, which there must be, that still leaves 1398 sets of parents in a town of 250k.
      Of course ,but allegedly has nothing to do with it , they did turn up and were arrested ? and the alleged abusers are jailed ?put it this way , if it was my girl the ALLEGED abuser would never be doing any more alleged abusing ,no fkin sirree , but do parents know what their children are doing 24/7 , dont forget , not everything happens in the wee small hours ,does it .Or do they keep them home after school locked in with no interaction with friends . Its a hard one to call especially when UK govt tells us we need the enriching multi culturism in the UK , and then we see what happens , now before im jumped on , not all "pakistani" immigrants are the same ,,are they , but if im led to believe whats being said , it seems to be part of their culture to look upon women and young girls as objects to be used and abused and kept subservient .Which shows they have no intention of integrating with the culture of the country which is giving them a home .Grooming of youngsters and rape is a no no ANYWHERE , and guess what , we are having an investigation into , ALLEGED peedos in govt here, which of course will be hushed up after 2 women who were taxed with the job have resigned from it as there is conflict of interest ?????
      Last edited by tankie; 07 Nov 14,, 10:51.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by tankie View Post
        put it this way , if it was my girl the ALLEGED abuser would never be doing any more alleged abusing ,no fkin sirree
        Tankie, all parents would have the same visceral reaction if their child was abused. However vigilantism wouldn't solve the problem. Presumably your child would desperately need your reassurance, love, and support after the event and that's something you are not going to be in a position to give for some considerable period of time if you end up doing time for murder, manslaughter or GBH etc. what's more there's a good chance he or she will blame themselves for your being in charged with a criminal offense. As much as it might be personally satisfying what you want or need doesn't matter, your child's well being always comes first, always - so you stay out of trouble and you be there for them 100%.
        If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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        • #64
          Are you a parent monash ? I ask because im wondering that if you are would you say the same , some of what you say i agree with , but the 2 guys who went looking for their girls were arrested ? it stinks , and im one who would do as i stated , right or wrong in others eyes , but thats just me , and if the bastard who abused her was gone maybe she would have reassurance in some way .And i would be on a guilt trip for not protecting her in the 1st instance , difficult it is .
          Last edited by tankie; 07 Nov 14,, 12:38.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
            Nope, though I do agree with it. With freedom comes responsibility.
            Right to vote includes the right not to as well ?

            if the state has to enforce civic duty or obligation its like the state imposing fines for not observing religious duties. it means belief in the state or religion in this case is weak and the state must prop it up.

            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
            The very notion of 'I didn't vote because they are all the same' is utter bullshit. There are always differences, and at the least you vote for the lesser of evils. The contempt with which non voters treat one of the few rights they have, fought for over 500 years, appals me. Truly the non voters get the representation they deserve.
            NOTA or None of the above.

            They introduced that recently in India, not had too much pickup but its been used.

            Our turnouts tend to average 60% over the years. In bad times its higher.

            My point is there are very few countries that make voting mandatory, it means something else is going on. That to remain democratic voting has to be mandatory and remain so.

            Originally posted by Monash View Post
            As far as I am aware Australia has had compulsory voting since the early 20s. As you can probably guess I am a strong supporter primarily because it forces all political parties to at least consider in passing the needs and opinions of non-aligned voters and not just the narrow concerns and demands of their own party members. As a result it tends to moderate the more extreme ideological tenancies of some sections of the major parties because they know that if they go to hard to the right or left on some issues they will loose the support of the majority of voters who tend to nest in the center.
            Why is Australia unique like this ? where its a problem to get people to vote and they have to be suitably motivated to do so. You can call it apathy or a lack of confidence bordering on cynicism. Another is the radicals on either side of the spectrum are threatening enough to give pause. 20s was a crazy time, so this rule is a throwback to those times.

            All the reasons you mention stem for the fact that people are not voting and if they are not made to vote then bad things will happen. Probably but if a govt screws up they will be thrown out come the next election cycle. Regime change will come sooner or later and is unforgiving.

            Originally posted by Monash View Post
            Which means every time I watch American elections and the way both sides of politics seem to try and discourage voter registration and put hurdles in the way of registering (that is if the likely outcome isn't t going to favor their side of course ) I get very depressed. Sometimes I think the political elites of the US, which after all likes to think of itself as the greatest democracy in the world would be quite happy if everyone but registered party members simply weren't allowed to vote - you know, just sit back, watch television, and leave the political decision making to the 'grown ups' who know what their doing.
            Turnouts in the 40-50-60s, not low enough to be an issue. And when a Kennedy, Reagan or Obama show up the figures rise.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 07 Nov 14,, 12:11.

            Comment


            • #66
              Double Edge, the State often imposes civic duties e.g. try not paying your taxes, rates, registration fees. Not sure why it was introduced over here (I will have to research it) but it was before the Great Depression so the social unrest of that period wasn't a factor. In any event compulsory voting seems to work here pretty well. I take your point about the variation in the voting rate in the US i.e. the fact that it goes up when certain popular contenders are running/able to motivate electors but for recent elections the rate is still in mid 50's with some evidence of gradual long term decline.

              P.S. not a parent just an overly protective uncle - which mean I get to feed them lots of sugar and tell them monster stories before handing them back to their parents as I walk out the door - works for me. :)
              Last edited by Monash; 07 Nov 14,, 13:19.
              If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

              Comment


              • #67
                Gotchya , maybe if /when you have your own kids your thoughts may change , I hope the situation never arises tho ;)

                Comment


                • #68
                  Of course ,but allegedly has nothing to do with it , they did turn up and were arrested ? and the alleged abusers are jailed ?put it this way , if it was my girl the ALLEGED abuser would never be doing any more alleged abusing ,no fkin sirree , but do parents know what their children are doing 24/7 , dont forget , not everything happens in the wee small hours ,does it .Or do they keep them home after school locked in with no interaction with friends . Its a hard one to call especially when UK govt tells us we need the enriching multi culturism in the UK , and then we see what happens , now before im jumped on , not all "pakistani" immigrants are the same ,,are they , but if im led to believe whats being said , it seems to be part of their culture to look upon women and young girls as objects to be used and abused and kept subservient .Which shows they have no intention of integrating with the culture of the country which is giving them a home .Grooming of youngsters and rape is a no no ANYWHERE , and guess what , we are having an investigation into , ALLEGED peedos in govt here, which of course will be hushed up after 2 women who were taxed with the job have resigned from it as there is conflict of interest ?????
                  A line in a newspaper that two unnamed dads showed up at some dude's house and got arrested. Well it doesn't even sound like those two dads did much other then get arrested. Why weren't they calling every journalist they could find? Filing lawsuits? Calling the police and requesting they go over there?

                  That leaves 1398 sets of parents. A town where few vote and a bunch of people let their daughters run off with middle aged South Asians. Sounds like something is rotten with them not the fault of the government telling them multiculturalism is good. If your middle school aged kids are running around with elderly Pakistani men late at night you are either a failure of a parent or pimped off your kid. 1398 sets of parents in this own town doing so tells me they are almost as fucked up as the South Asians.

                  My mother would not have one of her daughters out running the street late at night.
                  To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by troung View Post
                    That leaves 1398 sets of parents. A town where few vote and a bunch of people let their daughters run off with middle aged South Asians. Sounds like something is rotten with them not the fault of the government telling them multiculturalism is good. If your middle school aged kids are running around with elderly Pakistani men late at night you are either a failure of a parent or pimped off your kid. 1398 sets of parents in this own town doing so tells me they are almost as fucked up as the South Asians.
                    If calling out and identifying these men as Muslims or Pakistanis is futile and unacceptable because we are needlessly blaming an entire community for the actions of a few, then calling them out as "South Asians" or "Asians" (which every single newspaper has done incidentally) should be even more unacceptable. You are blaming/shaming an even larger community now.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Mehh...

                      Name and shame away.
                      Last edited by troung; 08 Nov 14,, 04:13.
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        ROTHERHAM, England — It started on the bumper cars in the children’s arcade of the local shopping mall. Lucy was 12, and a group of teenage boys, handsome and flirtatious, treated her and her friends to free rides and ice cream after school.

                        Over time, older men were introduced to the girls, while the boys faded away. Soon they were getting rides in real cars, and were offered vodka and marijuana. One man in particular, a Pakistani twice her age and the leader of the group, flattered her and bought her drinks and even a mobile phone. Lucy liked him.

                        The rapes started gradually, once a week, then every day: by the war memorial in Clifton Park, in an alley near the bus station, in countless taxis and, once, in an apartment where she was locked naked in a room and had to service half a dozen men lined up outside.

                        She obliged. How could she not? They knew where she lived. “If you don’t come back, we will rape your mother and make you watch,” they would say.



                        At night, she would come home and hide her soiled clothes at the back of her closet. When she finally found the courage to tell her mother, just shy of her 14th birthday, two police officers came to collect the clothes as evidence, half a dozen bags of them.
                        But a few days later, they called to say the bags had been lost.

                        “All of them?” she remembers asking. A check was mailed, 140 pounds, or $232, for loss of property, and the family was discouraged from pressing charges. It was the girl’s word against that of the men. The case was closed.

                        Lucy’s account of her experience is emblematic of what investigators say happened during a 16-year reign of terror and impunity in this poor northern English town of 257,000, where at least 1,400 children, some as young as 11, were groomed for sexual exploitation while the authorities looked the other way. One girl told investigators that gang rape was part of growing up in her neighborhood.

                        Between 1997 and 2013, despite numerous reports of sexual abuse, only one case, involving three teenage girls, was prosecuted, and five men were sent to jail, according to an official report into the sexual exploitation of children in Rotherham published last week.

                        Even now, the official reaction has been dominated by partisan finger-pointing and politics. The leader of the Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council has resigned, and the police chief is under pressure to follow suit. But criminal investigations continue, and more than a dozen victims are suing the police and the Council for negligence.

                        The scale and brutality of the abuse in Rotherham have shocked a country already shaken by a series of child abuse scandals involving celebrities, public officials, clerics and teachers at expensive private schools. The Rotherham report suggests that it continues unchecked among the most vulnerable in British society.

                        It has highlighted another uncomfortable dimension of the issue, that of race relations in Britain. The victims identified in the report were all white, while the perpetrators were mostly of Pakistani heritage, many of them working in nighttime industries like taxi driving and takeout restaurants. The same was true in recent prosecutions in Oxford, in southern England, and the northern towns of Oldham and Rochdale, where nine men of Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Afghan origin were given long prison sentences in 2012 for abusing up to 47 girls. Investigators in Scotland have reportedly uncovered a similar pattern of abuse.


                        Sexual abuse of children takes many forms, and the majority of convicted abusers in Britain are white. But as Nazir Afzal, the chief crown prosecutor in charge of sexual violence and himself of Pakistani heritage, put it, “There is no getting away from the fact that there are Pakistani gangs grooming vulnerable girls.”

                        The grooming tends to follow a similar pattern, according to Alexis Jay, a former chief inspector of social work who was commissioned by the Rotherham Council to carry out an independent investigation following a series of reports in The Times of London: a period of courting with young men in public places like town centers, bus stations or shopping malls; the gradual introduction of cigarettes, alcohol and sometimes harder drugs; a sexual relationship with one man, who becomes the “boyfriend” and later demands that the girl prove her love by having sex with his friends; then the threats, blackmail and violence that have deterred so many girls from coming forward.

                        But the report also outlined how those victims and parents who did ask for help were mostly let down by the police and social services, despite a great deal of detail known to them for more than a decade, including, in some cases, the names of possible offenders and their license plate numbers.

                        “Nobody can pretend they didn’t know,” Ms. Jay said in an interview.

                        Unimpeded, the abuse mushroomed. Over time, investigators found, it evolved from personal gratification to a business opportunity for the men.

                        Increasingly, the girls were shared not just among groups of men locally, but sold, or bartered for drugs or guns. They were driven to cities like Sheffield, Manchester and London, where groups of men raped them, sometimes overnight.

                        When parents reported their daughters missing, it could take 24 hours for the police to turn up, Ms. Jay said. Some parents, if they called in repeatedly, were fined for wasting police time.


                        Some officers and local officials told the investigation that they did not act for fear of being accused of racism. But Ms. Jay said that for years there was an undeniable culture of institutional sexism. Her investigation heard that police referred to victims as “tarts” and to the girls’ abuse as a “lifestyle choice.”

                        In the minutes of a meeting about a girl who had been raped by five men, a police detective refused to put her into the sexual abuse category, saying he knew she had been “100 percent consensual.” She was 12.

                        “These girls were often treated with utter contempt,” Ms. Jay said.

                        Lucy, now 25 but too scared to give her last name because, she said, the men who brutalized her still live nearby, knows about contempt. During an interview at her home outside Rotherham, she recalled being questioned about her abuse by police officers who repeatedly referred to the main rapist as her “boyfriend.”

                        The first time she was raped, there were nine men, she said, one on top of her, another to pin her down and force himself into her mouth. Two others restrained a friend of hers, holding open her eyelids to make her watch. The rest of the men, all in their 20s, stood over her, cheering and jeering, and blinding her with the flash of their cameras.




                        "Sexual abuse of children takes many forms, and the majority of convicted abusers in Britain are white."Really. In an article about how a...
                        Philip Sedlak 2 September 2014
                        I have engaged in casual conversations with Nepalese youths in Thamel, Kathmandu, who talk of European, American and Japanese women as “easy...

                        When she went to bed that night, she found a text message from the man who had groomed her for months: “Did you get home all right?”

                        She hesitated, then texted back: “Yes, I’m fine.”

                        At that moment, she said, rape became normality. “I thought, ‘This must be my fault, I must have given them a signal,’ ” she said.

                        Unlike other victims, Lucy came from a stable family. Her parents owned a convenience store and post office. They lived in a middle-class neighborhood. “I had been brought up in a nice world,” she said. “I thought rapists were people hiding in bushes, and pedophiles were people who drive white vans and park outside schools.”

                        After that first rape, she said, she began to think she had overreacted, and told her friend that she had been upset because she had lost her virginity. After school, they went back to the town center. The leader of the group took her to McDonald’s and rolled her a marijuana cigarette, she said. For a week, it was as if nothing had happened.

                        Then he raped her again, and soon the rules changed. The girls were to speak only when spoken to. They had to sit quietly in town and wait. Taxis would come by and pick them up. They were raped by different men in different places, mostly outdoors.

                        There seemed to be no way out. “They threatened to gang-rape my mother, to kill my brother and to firebomb my house,” Lucy said.

                        Once, she said, when they thought she might go to the police, a man with gold teeth whom she had never seen before dragged her into his car, a dark-green Honda with left-side drive, and put a gun to her head: “On the count of three you’re dead,” she said he told her. He pulled the trigger on three, but nothing happened. “Keep your mouth shut,” he said. “Next time there will be a bullet inside.”

                        Eventually, Lucy’s parents sold their business and moved to Spain for 18 months. “It became quite clear that leaving the country was the only way we could save Lucy,” said her mother, who participated in parts of the interview.

                        Lucy experienced years of depression and anorexia, her mother said. She now works as a consultant on child sexual exploitation issues for police departments and charities.

                        “They say it’s vulnerable girls these people are after,” her mother said. “Well, of course they’re vulnerable. They’re innocent. They’re children.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          tankie,

                          That is a shocking account posted by you.
                          The solution for these types of men - Charles Bronson from Death Wish OR good old Dirty Harry with his .44.

                          Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            That was a post from the NEW YORK TIMES ,, L/Tree ,hits home huh and the thing is , its the tip of the iceburg , the next stage is the exposure of the UK Govt peedo ring , a few have had the finger pointed ,,,,doors will be slammed , papers will go AWOL , watch this space , wait out .

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                            • #74
                              One reason why sweet f/a gets done .

                              https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...79189006,d.ZGU

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                If true a very damning video freely available on you tube,with lots more links .

                                BILL MALONEY CHILD ABUSE UPDATE JULY 2014 SIMON COWELL,PRINCE PHILIP,ROLF HARRIS NECROPHILIA - YouTube

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