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Thread: Infantry gear over the ages: 1066-2014

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    Infantry gear over the ages: 1066-2014

    Anyone recognises these loads?

    Some interesting gear lists here:
    Inventories of war: soldiers' kit from 1066 to 2014

    Pity there's no roman legionaire, then we could make a note on "Marius' mules".

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    Posted this on my Facebook page the other day.

    The author marvels that there is a spoon in every photo. What I noticed there is also an edged weapon in every photo.

    One thing is for sure....the load of the PBI has not gotten any lighter over the years!
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post

    One thing is for sure....the load of the PBI has not gotten any lighter over the years!
    If anything, it seems to have increased, specially in the 20th century, mainly (I think?) thanks to body armour and radios. I also noticed something odd in the ammo load. The WWII para carries 8 magazines (7+1 in the weapon), the Falklands trooper 7 (6+1), the modern 6 (5+1). Just a coincidence, or is the load really lower?
    Last edited by jlvfr; 05 Aug 14, at 13:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    If anything, it seems to have increased, specially in the 20th century, mainly (I think?) thanks to body armour and radios. I also noticed something odd in the ammo load. The WWII para carries 8 magazines (7+1 in the weapon), the Falklands trooper 7 (6+1), the modern 6 (5+1). Just a coincidence, or is the load really lower?
    Maybe fewer mags but more rounds per mag as we went from .303/.30-06/7.62 to 5.56.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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    i'm impressed with the evolution of armor in the middle ages. the difference between 1485 and 1244 is huge, much bigger than the difference between 1244 and 1066.

    also this reminds me of shek's phrase, something to the effect of everytime they invent lightweight sh*t it just means more lightweight sh*t to carry.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Maybe fewer mags but more rounds per mag as we went from .303/.30-06/7.62 to 5.56.
    Afaik all these magazines carried 30 rounds (32 on the Stern).

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    jlvfr,

    Maybe the soldiers carry more items, but I'd guess the load is the same.

    A man can carry as much as they can carry. Due to new technologies and materials objects become lighter and more ergonomic.

    At least this is how a semi informed civvie sees the things
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    "A man can carry as much as they can carry."

    Wrong. The government soldier defies physics. The government has expended immense resources making each item lighter thus the man can now carry more.

    Trust me.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    "A man can carry as much as they can carry."

    Wrong. The government soldier defies physics. The government has expended immense resources making each item lighter thus the man can now carry more.

    Trust me.
    More items, sure, but more weight?

    Oh, and just in case this questioning is misunderstood, I do trust you.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Afaik all these magazines carried 30 rounds (32 on the Stern).
    The STEN mags were 32 of 9mm ammo...pistol ammo.

    The SLR (aka the FN) had 20 round mags...just like the M14 and G3.

    The move to 5.56mm originally had 20 rd mags but all went to 30 rd quickly.

    And the more correct analogy than a para sergeant would be a trooper in a rifle section....who carried 150 rounds of .303 ammo in 5 round charger clips in his pouches.

    Of course US & Commonwealth Infantrymen also carried as many bandoliers as they could get their hands on!

    Astralis....Shek made that exact same comment on my Facebook post!
    Last edited by Albany Rifles; 06 Aug 14, at 15:06.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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    By way of referring to Marius's mules ... the average weight of a Roman Legionaries weapons, armor and equipment is estimated to have been about 30kg before adding any personal items and marching rations. This is aprox. what can be carried by a fully equipped infantry solider today on a forced march. So hail to all those modern 'mules' out there. If they could the legionaries would exchange a knowing grin with everyone who has ever had to hump full kit on a 30K hike.
    Last edited by Monash; 07 Aug 14, at 22:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    By way of referring to Marius's mules ... the average weight of a Roman Legionaries weapons, armor and equipment is estimated to have been about 30kg before adding any personal items an/and marching rations. This is aprox. what can be carried by a fully equipped infantry solider today on a forced march. So hail to all those modern 'mules' out there. If they could the legionaries would exchange a knowing grin with everyone who has ever had to hump full kit on a 30K hike.
    And the legionaires did it wearing galigae, not boots

    When I think "infantry load" my mind keeps going to the famous "Falklands yomp"; 90km in 3 days with full 36kg loads, over lousy terrain. My back hurts just thinking about it!

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    Marching around in chain mail and plate armor must have been a real joy on a hot day in August. Getting cooked in your own personal tin can while drenched in sweat. The chafing and swamp ass would have been unreal.

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    Think of the guys in the American Civil War in union suits under Navy blue jackets in the summer in the South!
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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    Ahh, the days of wool and linsey-woolsey!

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