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Thread: Does the world seem really screwed up at the moment?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I was under the impression that a hypersonic weapon building on the X-51 is planned to enter service in the 2020s. This would seemingly fulfill the Prompt Global Strike requirements while bypassing the danger of looking like a nuclear launch.
    The TRIDENTS are an easier and cheaper technology to develop. And the reason why the Russians fear it is because they can't react before first impact (10 minute flight time) and then left with the only option of a nuclear first strike by their subs. Which they have historically loathe to do.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    TRIDENTS are SLBMS. I know you're lawyering these days and married but ... shame, Hitesh, you've been whipped.
    Facts of the life.

    The technology is not mature yet. As of today, a conventional armed TRIDENT cannot take out a Russian silo but we have restricted ourselves from ever developing that technology.
    Russia doesn't use silos anymore. They use mobile ICBMs now.

    Never mind the Russians. What about the Chinese? What about the Iranians? What about the Pakistanis? Why do we restrict ourselves from conventionally taking out those threats? Why do we have to rely on nukes to take out their arsenals in time critical missions?
    We always have that ability against those countries.... CVNs.

    Their SSBNs are extremely viable and have resumed Cold War scheduled patrols. My assumption, and would be a valid one, that they're ready for bear.
    Yes at the cost of the rest of their navy which means that Russia can't project power and instead waste more money on nuke subs that doesn't really do much in the conventional sphere of geopolitics.

    Their doctrine states that they have 30 days (that's how long a crisis would develop) to bring to full alert. At such a point, I don't think money matters much. They're assuming they're going to die.
    30 days is enough to remachine and refurbish the nukes? I thought it takes more.

    However, to answer your point, they're not throwing decommissioned nukes into the Volga because they can't work. They're dismantling them which means that they've got parts galore. All they have to do is to canablize their decomissioning nukes.
    I thought those parts are useless because of the radiation and emissions from radioactive decay. Not only that, you have stated repeatedly that the cores and charges need to be reshape every couple years.

    And they've added features to overcome BMD. The point is the Russians are never as strong as we believe but they're never as weak as we believe. Push comes to shove, they will get their birds into the air. They've always did.
    Yes at the expense of everything else.

    You mean like B52s, B1s, and B2s, and cruise missile strikes during the Kuwait and Iraq Wars?
    The difference with those weapons is that the Russians had more time to identify whether it was conventional attack or not. With ICBMs you had no way of knowing in time.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Russia doesn't use silos anymore. They use mobile ICBMs now.
    Nope, at least half are still silo based.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    We always have that ability against those countries.... CVNs.
    Not 10-30 minute impact time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Yes at the cost of the rest of their navy which means that Russia can't project power and instead waste more money on nuke subs that doesn't really do much in the conventional sphere of geopolitics.
    That wasn't your point. Your point was that their nukes are detorriating. They're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    30 days is enough to remachine and refurbish the nukes? I thought it takes more.
    Their nukes are clunklier than ours (ie, more dirty fall out), so it doesn't have to meet our standards, just enough to go boom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    I thought those parts are useless because of the radiation and emissions from radioactive decay. Not only that, you have stated repeatedly that the cores and charges need to be reshape every couple years.
    A hell of a lot easier to refurbish than it is to manufacture new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Yes at the expense of everything else.
    Well, here's the point. Relative to what? Relative to us? Sure. They've declined but would a Chinese Group Army like to take on a Russian Guards Army?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    The difference with those weapons is that the Russians had more time to identify whether it was conventional attack or not. With ICBMs you had no way of knowing in time.
    B2s and cruise missiles? Hitesh, we're counting on the fact that the Russians won't see them until impact. Otherwise, they'd be shot out of the sky.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    They got rid of a terrorist threat who has historically shown that he would embark on misguided adventures when he thought he could pull it off without extreme costs, starting with the Iran-Iraq War, the Bush Sr assassination attempt, to issuing chemical weapons release orders on non-existing stock.
    One would have thought that the Gulf War 1 would have kept him in check, since it was quite a "shock and awe" even for those who just watched the war on TV.
    Saddam's biggest folly was the Kuwait invasion.

    But sir, to grant the devil his due, Iraq had US support against the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war.
    The Bush Sr assassination attempt has so much contrary material online that one would never know what is the truth.

    But in hind sight now, with the way Iraq has turned out, it appears that mad men can only be controlled by a madman (Saddam). At least then Iraq was a secular nation, while today there is genocide agaisnt all minorities by the sunni ISIS.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    One would have thought that the Gulf War 1 would have kept him in check, since it was quite a "shock and awe" even for those who just watched the war on TV.
    Saddam's biggest folly was the Kuwait invasion.
    11 September gave him ideas and subsuqent actions proved the Americans right. A chemical weapons release order and the buried nuclear weapons research was found. Saddam was biding his time.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    But sir, to grant the devil his due, Iraq had US support against the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war.
    No. The Iran-Contra Affair.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    The Bush Sr assassination attempt has so much contrary material online that one would never know what is the truth.
    Bill Clinton was convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    But in hind sight now, with the way Iraq has turned out, it appears that mad men can only be controlled by a madman (Saddam). At least then Iraq was a secular nation, while today there is genocide agaisnt all minorities by the sunni ISIS.
    Iraqis are killing Iraqis. Saddam is not doing a 11 Sept against the Americans.
    Chimo

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Iraqis are killing Iraqis. Saddam is not doing a 11 Sept against the Americans.
    As much as I hate to see the endless slaughter in the Middle East, as long as Syria/Iraq remains a meat grinder that sucks in all the guys with extremist tendencies, the rest of the world is safer.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    As much as I hate to see the endless slaughter in the Middle East, as long as Syria/Iraq remains a meat grinder that sucks in all the guys with extremist tendencies, the rest of the world is safer.
    I know it's usual for some North Americans to see the world as a piece in the map between Germany and the Pacific, but this statement on WAB is rather confusing. Look at the news about Africa SEAsia, Ukraine, Georgia, Balkans... Then reconsider how the world is safer.
    Last edited by Doktor; 08 Aug 14, at 18:09.
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    precisely. militants, unfortunately, are a renewable resource. extremism breeds further extremism.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    And Beslan and Kosovo and the Chinese would have dropped the anchor on the other side. Putin restored Russian pride if not Russian power.
    Sir, do you mean Putin is good for the stability of the world because he keeps Russia together rather than allowing it to break up further? I have never thought of it that way. A strong dictator is better than a group of regional strongmen vying for power with foreign influence injected into the fight. We learned that in Iraq (or did we?). We saw that in Libya. We almost got it right in Egypt. It's happening in Syria right now.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  10. #70
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Sir I do not believe that was necessary, merely the exposure of the Soviet regimes crimes may have proved sufficient. The rest they would do for themselves.
    Snapper, if I may interject. I think you are too naÔve about the Russian people. They may not like their current government, they may not want the corruption in their current government, but they sure as hell don't want western Europeans to "liberate" them.

    As the old saying goes, Putin is a sonufabitch but he's our sonufabitch. Nothing unifies the Russian people, even the Ukranian people, more than a European invasion/occupation/subjugation. Some will welcome the Europeans, but I suspect most will resist.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    As much as I hate to see the endless slaughter in the Middle East, as long as Syria/Iraq remains a meat grinder that sucks in all the guys with extremist tendencies, the rest of the world is safer.
    I disagree. If the world sits and watches, then the only ones left in the Middle east will be the extremists who will come after the rest of the world. How can we forget what the Taliban did to Afghanistan and how the extremist AQ came after the US?

    The world will never be a safer place if they are left alone.
    Unfortunately, India has always sat on the fence on such issues.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    I disagree. If the world sits and watches, then the only ones left in the Middle east will be the extremists who will come after the rest of the world. How can we forget what the Taliban did to Afghanistan and how the extremist AQ came after the US?

    The world will never be a safer place if they are left alone.
    Unfortunately, India has always sat on the fence on such issues.
    In my opinion, it is great that ISIS is being shown so much in the media. This shows people how dangerous Islam can be, and how it will increasingly become more like this if we don't do anything to stop it, specially with the way the Muslims are getting increasingly more radicalized in Western Europe and the number of conversions rise (the converts usually being among the most radicals). Someone might say "Ah, not all Muslims are like that" and that is absolutely obvious, but that is not the point. The minorities that make revolutions and the minorities who take charge. No matter what people on Earth, there is always a tiny minority in leadership and in a increasingly wimp West, the ones that look stronger are the ones who eventually will get a hold of power by imposing their force and spirit.

  13. #73
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    In my opinion, it is great that ISIS is being shown so much in the media. This shows people how dangerous Islam can be, and how it will increasingly become more like this if we don't do anything to stop it, specially with the way the Muslims are getting increasingly more radicalized in Western Europe and the number of conversions rise (the converts usually being among the most radicals). Someone might say "Ah, not all Muslims are like that" and that is absolutely obvious, but that is not the point. The minorities that make revolutions and the minorities who take charge. No matter what people on Earth, there is always a tiny minority in leadership and in a increasingly wimp West, the ones that look stronger are the ones who eventually will get a hold of power by imposing their force and spirit.
    The problem with your theory is that the western "multicultural" socialist will just declare "ISIS is not Islam."

    Notice that we haven't had a single "muslim terror attack" on continental US since 9-11? We've had plenty of "isolated incidents," "work place violence," "lone wolf attacks" by "social outcasts." Basically anything but "Islamic terror."

    "Islamic terror" does not exist in the world of western multiculturalism.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    The problem with your theory is that the western "multicultural" socialist will just declare "ISIS is not Islam."

    Notice that we haven't had a single "muslim terror attack" on continental US since 9-11? We've had plenty of "isolated incidents," "work place violence," "lone wolf attacks" by "social outcasts." Basically anything but "Islamic terror."

    "Islamic terror" does not exist in the world of western multiculturalism.
    The moment you start calling it "Islamic" is the moment you legitimize their cause and alienate the majority of moderates that don't want those turds claiming "same team!" whether you see it or not, it makes a difference.
    "We are all special cases." - Camus

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrel View Post
    The moment you start calling it "Islamic" is the moment you legitimize their cause and alienate the majority of moderates that don't want those turds claiming "same team!" whether you see it or not, it makes a difference.
    Moderate muslims need to stand up and clean house. What do we do when someone murders a bunch of people in the name of Christ? We hunt him down and end his crimes, one way or the other.

    When someone kills a bunch of people in the name of Allah, moderate muslims need to hunt him down and put him away. No ands, ifs, or buts.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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