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Putting a New Pressure Hull on Taiwanese Guppy Submarine

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  • Putting a New Pressure Hull on Taiwanese Guppy Submarine

    Seriously, how practical is this? I know they are desperate, since nobody will sell them newer subs to avoid angering China. $450 million Taiwanese Dollars is just shy of $15 million US dollars if I got the currency exchange right.

    Seal = Tusk (SS-426)
    Sea Lion = Cutlass (SS-478)

    Old Taiwanese submarine to get new pressure hull: MND - The China Post


    Old Taiwanese submarine to get new pressure hull: MND

    By Chi-hao James Lo ,The China Post
    June 3, 2014, 12:04 am TWN

    TAIPEI, Taiwan -- The Navy Command Headquarters of the Ministry of National Defense (MND) yesterday responded to earlier reports on the necessity of the pressure hull replacement for an older submarine, stating that the replacement is a necessity.


    An officer of the naval command stated that agencies such as the China Shipbuilding Corp (CSBC, 台船) and the Ship and Ocean Industries Research and Development Center (SOIC, 船舶暨海洋產業研發中心) have been appointed as the responsible agencies.

    The officer also stated that the submarine in question is extremely old, which is why the reconstruction is necessary. In reality, both the Seal Submarine and its partner the Sea Lion Submarine have been adopted as training submarines recently and there hasn't been much of an opportunity to submerge them underwater, said the officer.

    Reportedly, the budget of the project has been listed at NT$450 million. Local media have viewed the reconstruction project as a test to see whether the CSBC and SOIC possesses the engineering capacity to construct a submarine that is made in Taiwan. The submarine construction program is largely based on reverse-engineering existing submarines.

    Aside from the pressure hull, the navy has reportedly said that it wishes to have old pipelines replaced. However, details are still being negotiated between both parties.

    Local Technical Limitations Prompt Safety Speculations

    Earlier local reports stated that part of the new hull will replace the old pressure hull that was welded locally and will then be covered with the already 70-year old external hull that will also be welded locally, prompting speculation about safety concerns by local media.

    Other safety concerns are related to the fact that the reconstruction of the hull is reportedly set to take place at a dry dock of the Navy Maintenance Command instead of at the CSBC dry dock due to technical limitations.

    A former Navy Submarine Reservist, Colonel Wang Chih-peng (王志鵬), has stated that the problem of the pressure hull in the current Seal Submarine does not reside solely in its lower part, but in the entirety of the sub. Welding a new piece of hull onto a 70-year-old machine with metal fatigue could have safety issues, said Wang, which means that all three parts of the pressure hull should be replaced. Unfortunately, budget constraints only allow for the lower part of the hull to be replaced.

  • #2
    Too bad the ROK doesn't have enough money to get another Son Won-il class (German Type 214) sub.
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Stitch View Post
      Too bad the ROK doesn't have enough money to get another Son Won-il class (German Type 214) sub.
      Did you confuse ROCN and ROKN?

      I suppose this is a good starting point if you want to develop an indigenous capability. No better way of learning than by doing.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ace16807 View Post
        Did you confuse ROCN and ROKN?

        I suppose this is a good starting point if you want to develop an indigenous capability. No better way of learning than by doing.
        Yes, I did; got Korea on the brain, for some reason.

        So I guess I should've said, it's too bad the ROCN doesn't have enough money to buy a Type 214!

        Even better: a decommisioned 688 (Flight I); but then that opens a whole new can of worms with the reactor (which the US wouldn't sell or transfer, anyway).
        "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

        Comment


        • #5
          If they can figure out how to make their own subs for $15 million...that's a damn steal. Then, countries can sell Taiwan parts (electronics, etc...). They have been wanting subs for over a decade now, and were ready to pay a significant amount of money for them. If this works for them, more power to them...literally.
          "We are all special cases." - Camus

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stitch View Post
            So I guess I should've said, it's too bad the ROCN doesn't have enough money to buy a Type 214!
            ... and Germany would block such a sale, if necessary by economic-politically drastic means. Like it did in 2002. Korea does have the production license for Asia for the Type 214, but that doesn't mean they can sell without German approval.
            Last edited by kato; 10 Jun 14,, 23:00.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Stitch View Post
              Yes, I did; got Korea on the brain, for some reason.

              So I guess I should've said, it's too bad the ROCN doesn't have enough money to buy a Type 214!
              Germany will not risk angering China for a few hundred million euros.

              Taiwan bought 6 Lafayette hulls from France and 2 subs from Nederland in the 1990s and China threw a hissy fit.

              Originally posted by Stitch View Post
              Even better: a decommisioned 688 (Flight I); but then that opens a whole new can of worms with the reactor (which the US wouldn't sell or transfer, anyway).
              Tech is too sensitive and the platforms too expensive to run. These boats might also be a bit too big for the narrow waters of the Taiwan strait.
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ChrisV71 View Post
                Seriously, how practical is this?
                Anything is possible if one has unlimited funds.

                Originally posted by ChrisV71 View Post
                $450 million Taiwanese Dollars is just shy of $15 million US dollars if I got the currency exchange right.
                Well...there goes that idea.

                China Shipbuilding Corp (CSBC, 台船)
                Interesting... It was always called 中船 when I was there. This article, being from Taiwan, shouldn't make this mistake.

                A former Navy Submarine Reservist, Colonel Wang Chih-peng (王志鵬), has stated that the problem of the pressure hull in the current Seal Submarine does not reside solely in its lower part, but in the entirety of the sub. Welding a new piece of hull onto a 70-year-old machine with metal fatigue could have safety issues, said Wang, which means that all three parts of the pressure hull should be replaced. Unfortunately, budget constraints only allow for the lower part of the hull to be replaced.
                And there you have it.

                It feels like someone somewhere just wants these boats to continue to float, rather than conduct dive operations.
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                  Interesting... It was always called 中船 when I was there. This article, being from Taiwan, shouldn't make this mistake.
                  They changed it a few years ago.

                  State-run firms begin name change - Taipei Times

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    Anything is possible if one has unlimited funds.



                    Well...there goes that idea.



                    Interesting... It was always called 中船 when I was there. This article, being from Taiwan, shouldn't make this mistake.



                    And there you have it.

                    It feels like someone somewhere just wants these boats to continue to float, rather than conduct dive operations.
                    If you only replace half the hull, chances are it's not going to be very valuable in terms of gaining experience.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ace16807 View Post
                      They changed it a few years ago.

                      State-run firms begin name change - Taipei Times
                      Of course it was done during the pro-independence administration. They should have changed the English name too. Or not change anything at all.
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                        If you only replace half the hull, chances are it's not going to be very valuable in terms of gaining experience.
                        I think the key take away will be the knowledge of how to even build hulls, it's a step towards indigenous production.
                        "We are all special cases." - Camus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                          Of course it was done during the pro-independence administration. They should have changed the English name too. Or not change anything at all.
                          Yeah. They changed 中油 as well. I dunno if the KMT has made any progress reverting the change (something about it needing legislative approval to change SoE names).

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