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Thread: EEU = Soviet Lite

  1. #1
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    EEU = Soviet Lite

    Only three presidents were sitting at the table large enough to accommodate fifteen. The Russian Federation, Belarus, and Kazakhstan agreed to form the new Eurasian Economic Union on 29 May. The EEU is envisioned by Vladimir Putin to be a counterweight to the EU. So far, only Armenia and Kyrgyzstan, both tiny and poor, are considering joining. The remainder of the former Soviet republics have said no thanks.

    The EEU has only about one-sixth the economic power of the EU. Uzbekistan turned off the gas supply to Kyrgyzstan in April. Notably missing was Ukraine, which has 10 million more people than Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia, and Kyrgyzstan combined.

    Putin's dreams of grandeur here is at best... Soviet Lite.

  2. #2
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minskaya View Post
    Only three presidents were sitting at the table large enough to accommodate fifteen......

    Putin's dreams of grandeur here is at best... Soviet Lite.
    A delicious visual image that does more to undermine the 24/7 Russian propaganda machine than anything else could. Putin would rather have a worthless empire than a successful nation.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    Mmm, could we ditch the Hillary propaganda?

    The EEU is the culmination of the EAEC and the effective successor of the already existing Customs Union of the three concerned states. Sure, it might smell like Soviet times, but de facto Lukashenko is already a vassal of Russia and Nazarbayev has been wanting to get back into Russia's bed since before Russia and Kazakhstan became separate nations. Zero change there.

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Besides,it's only a start.The struggle continues.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  5. #5
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Mmm, could we ditch the Hillary propaganda?
    I think not. If it waddles like a duck etc.

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    Same could be said of the EU of course.

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    Or NAFTA?

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Notably missing was Ukraine, which has 10 million more people than Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia, and Kyrgyzstan combined.
    The size and population of the Ukraine are at issue at the moment. I guess that will make Russia's own chair a bit bigger or they can just use the Ukraine's as an Ottoman.

    Uzbekistan turned off the gas supply to Kyrgyzstan in April.il
    For bilateral reasons.

    The EEU has only about one-sixth the economic power of the EU.
    Bringing in the Ukraine wasn't going to transform them into Sweden.

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    Last edited by troung; 31 May 14, at 21:10.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    A delicious visual image...

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    Three lonely dictators. Surely someone should have found a smaller table.

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    Senior Contributor DonBelt's Avatar
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    It's so they keep their hands to themselves.

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Three lonely dictators. Surely someone should have found a smaller table.
    At least they have the infrastructure prepared for an expansion
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    At least they have the infrastructure prepared for an expansion
    Assuming that they can pay for it.

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    I'm suffering from database errorism so I'll continue my thoughts on the conflict here. Only appropriate being a thread initiated by Minnie and, more to the point, one of the few relevant Ukraine threads I can currently access.

    Gratified to see the form our "non-lethal" assistance is taking. Actually, pluses and minuses but having a broad mix of skills in good numbers (297) and all from a coherent unit of high calibre is, essentially, forward-positioning. Essentially, the 173rd Airborne Brigade now has an advance party in country. Training is the ostensible mission but I'm certain the brigade staff has a large number of ancillary tasks to accomplish while supporting this forward deployment.

    Downside? Wrong unit. The 173rd Airborne Bde. is a strategic asset. This isn't a bad mission that's crippling their strategic worth-yet. Might be, however, if they don't actually deploy to the Ukraine in full. More to the point, however, is that I'd prefer these forces to be from a coherent U.S. Armored/Mech brigade. The battle is a largely static fight encompassing a broad range of battle environments but the displayed dominance of armored forces makes clear that firepower, mobility, and survivability are critical in both the attack and defense.

    Static battles fought with little altering of lines over weeks were dramatically and irrevocably altered at Illovaisk and Debaltsevo by the introduction of coherent heavy Russian units. Shock and maneuver ruptured Ukrainian defenses and completed encirclements leading to entire units decimated in heartbreaking fashion. The Ukraine deployed no forces able to withstand nor counterattack against such. Doubt the heavy forces they possess would be able to do so in any case.

    But they must to have any chance of raising the price Putin pays beyond his means. This conflict, I'm certain, will be determined when the ARM OF DECISION within the Ukrainian army develops the professionalism and means to bloody the Russian noses.

    Doing so indicates a professional force able to sustain, mass, maneuver and destroy by fire it's opponent. So long as the Ukrainian military is unable to execute heavy armor operations with any modern standard of efficiency, they'll remain vulnerable to Russian heavy armor intervention that, until now, has been a complete game changer.

    That's what we should be training and that's what the Ukrainians should be demanding.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    S2 in general I agree that maneuver and combining the use of armour, infantry and artillerly in maneuver at a staff level are the main lessons where lessons must be learned on the Ukrainian side. The infantry is not too bad - those who have been at the front are good - but the 173rd Airborne are training mostly noobs from the National Guard. It helps a little but is not directed at the major failing point.

    In general there has been a great deal of dissatisfaction with the senior command. See: A. http://empr.media/news/a-letter-to-p...-up-debaltseve
    B. http://maidantranslations.com/2014/1...tal-decisions/
    C. http://empr.media/opinion/analytics/...s-questionable
    D. https://viktorkovalenko.wordpress.com/ (a diary of press officer who was at Debaltseve).

    Many feel that the Chief of Staff, General Viktor Muzhenko (graduated from the Leningrad Higher Military Command School in 1983) should go but I doubt anyone else would do better. In general though the General Staff and even the ATO Command have had a tendency to want to micromanage everything going on all over. This has changed recently - the Sector Commanders have given greater autonomy and don't have to wait for the ATO Command Centre or Kyiv to make a decision. In the central areas and from Poltava to Mykolaiv live fire training exercises using armour, arty and mech inf occur almost daily as well as normal physical training (running and 'yomping' etc). Staff College days are also held. I attended one recently where we got to inspect the old Battlefield at Poltava which was interesting to me at least being a history nut.

    For possible next moves by Russia and suggestions as to Western responses see; http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentar...in_ukraine3010 and for Ukrainian strategy see http://empr.media/opinion/analytics/...ncive-strategy

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