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Thread: EEU = Soviet Lite

  1. #31
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    Special Report: Russian soldiers quit over Ukraine

    By Maria Tsvetkova

    MOSCOW/DONETSK | Sun May 10, 2015 4:22am EDT

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    By Maria Tsvetkova

    MOSCOW/DONETSK (Reuters) - Some Russian soldiers are quitting the army because of the conflict in Ukraine, several soldiers and human rights activists have told Reuters. Their accounts call into question the Kremlin's continued assertions that no Russian soldiers have been sent to Ukraine, and that any Russians fighting alongside rebels there are volunteers.

    Evidence for Russians fighting in Ukraine – Russian army equipment found in the country, testimony from soldiers' families and from Ukrainians who say they were captured by Russian paratroopers – is abundant. Associates of Boris Nemtsov, a prominent Kremlin critic killed in February, will soon publish a report which they say will contain new evidence of the Russian military presence in Ukraine.

    Until now, however, it has been extremely rare to find Russian soldiers who have fought there and are willing to talk. It is even rarer to find soldiers who have quit the army. Five soldiers who recently quit, including two who said they left rather than serve in Ukraine, have told Reuters of their experiences.

    One of the five, from Moscow, said he was sent on exercises in southern Russia last year but ended up going into Ukraine in an armored convoy.

    "After we crossed the border, a lieutenant colonel said we could be sent to jail if we didn't fulfil orders. Some soldiers refused to stay there," said the soldier, who served with the elite Russian Kantemirovskaya tank division. He gave Reuters his full name but spoke on condition of anonymity, saying he feared reprisals.

    He said he knew two soldiers who refused to stay. "They were taken somewhere. The lieutenant colonel said criminal cases were opened against them but in reality – we called them afterwards – they were at home. They just quit."
    Continue reading at Reuters.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I commend Tim Snyder's 'Bloodlands' book to you or some his lectures which are available on You Tube.
    All I read is a bunch of excuses why the Ukraines refuses to do to Moscow what the Chechens did in 3 wars.

  3. #33
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Quote Originally Posted by OOE2_test View Post
    All I read is a bunch of excuses why the Ukraines refuses to do to Moscow what the Chechens did in 3 wars.
    Really? That’s all you read? Never mind the fact that the book was published in 2010, (well before the conflict began in 2013) or that it concerns the Second World War, all you read were “excuses”? I get the feeling that you’re struggling to overcome a myriad of biases and that these biases are severely hindering your ability to think rationally. Although, if a book written about World War II has managed to highlight excuses for the conflict in the here and now, then perhaps you have come to agree that Ukraine is executing the best strategy available, given her position against Russia. Maybe, then, you’d care to exchange the word “excuses” for “reasons”? Just a thought.

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Fixed it for ya
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    Maybe, then, you’d care to exchange the word “excuses” for “reasons”? Just a thought.
    You should write less and read more. That is NOT a thought but a statement of fact!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    Although, if a book written about World War II has managed to highlight excuses for the conflict in the here and now, then perhaps you have come to agree that Ukraine is executing the best strategy available, given her position against Russia. Maybe, then, you’d care to exchange the word “excuses” for “reasons”? Just a thought.
    Maybe you should stop being a stupid dumbass and looked up Chechenya, you idiot!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOE2_test View Post
    Maybe you should stop being a stupid dumbass and looked up Chechenya, you idiot!
    Some people mellow with age, not the colonel. Sir, you seem to have become much grumpier recently. Have you run low on Scotch? Do we need to send tribute?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOE2_test View Post
    All I read is a bunch of excuses why the Ukraines refuses to do to Moscow what the Chechens did in 3 wars.
    Sir, the Chechens lost, or to be more accurate were used as patsies. What do you read into it when a regime that has no qualms murdering it's own citizens, no problems with invading Georgia, annexing Crimea and invading Donbass (though it crudely denies black is black in that case) starts rehabilitating the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact? Here's a hint of NATO reads into it; http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...raine-tensions

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Sir, the Chechens lost, or to be more accurate were used as patsies.
    They won 2 and lost the last and the last one they lost, they started by invading Dagestan.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    What do you read into it when a regime that has no qualms murdering it's own citizens, no problems with invading Georgia, annexing Crimea and invading Donbass (though it crudely denies black is black in that case) starts rehabilitating the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact?
    I read this is more excuse not to fight total war for your own survival.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOE2_test View Post
    They won 2 and lost the last and the last one they lost, they started by invading Dagestan.
    Some fight in Ukraine now.

    Quote Originally Posted by OOE2_test View Post
    I read this is more excuse not to fight total war for your own survival.
    Sir you are missing my point; when a regime tears up and/or lies or distorts it's actions regarding it's own citizens and international law the nation that it is picking on at present is the not the only nation threatened. Poland, Romania, the Baltic States all understand the implied menace - we've all been here before and recognise the signs from our histories. Yet only the Ukrainian army is engaged in the field and has been for nearly a year. As you know, despite what I considered at the time a bad plan, back last August Ukraine within an ace of ending the war in Donbass. Now due to Minsk 2 Ukrainian forces are obliged not to advance in order to liberate the occupied areas of their own sovereign territory. I do not want to see Ukrainians and Russians killing each other, as I recall you saying some time ago, but I do want to win and am confident of Ukraine's ability to do so.

  12. #42
    Senior Contributor Andrey Egorov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOE2_test View Post
    All I read is a bunch of excuses why the Ukraines refuses to do to Moscow what the Chechens did in 3 wars.
    If Ukrainians will start blowing up schools and apartment buildings it will give Russia perfect excuse for full-scale invasion.
    We're so bad, we're even bad at it

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey Egorov View Post
    If Ukrainians will start blowing up schools and apartment buildings it will give Russia perfect excuse for full-scale invasion.
    I believe the Col was referring to the actions in Chechnya, not on the terror attacks in Russia.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  14. #44
    Senior Contributor Andrey Egorov's Avatar
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    Apparently so. Just in case...
    But actions in Chechnya were mere guerilla warfare on Chechen side and anti-partisan war on the Russian. The situation is reversed for Ukraine, there are partisans of DNR and there is Ukrainian army fighting them.
    We're so bad, we're even bad at it

  15. #45
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Some gurilla with APC and artillery.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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