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  • Originally posted by Versus View Post
    So, the feeling is negative, in general I mean.
    Why do you think that they are so unsuccessful in producing thriving society?
    Why is it negative? It is a neutral, real view with expressed feel of sorry they didn't do more. I fail to see how is it a negative view.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by S2 View Post
      Your point with all of this?
      I find very hard to understand, why you think that Russia doesn't have the right to protect its own national interests and why US has every right to protect its national interests. By the way, what are US national interests?

      I mean, I really don't understand what US wants and it appears that it wants everything. It is present globally, it meddles in the affairs of every country in the world, it intervenes everywhere and tells everyone what to do. It invaded Iraq now we have ISIS, it helped Kosovo to gain its independence now people are leaving it, it invaded Afghanistan now...God knows what results are there. It organized Arab Spring, now we have head cutters... And on top of everything, you de industrialized US, everything is now manufactured in China with cheap labor which makes any attempt to manufacture anything domestically by any country a waste of time...Financial sector is gone wild.. I mean, I understand the desire to lead "the free world" but where US is leading it to?
      Cause it seems that the ideal world would be, a world without Russia a world where everyone would work for 1 dollar per hour, while in the US majority would be either flipping burgers and dreaming to become a cocaine sniffing broker who's makes 10 million per hour and than wastes all that next morning... It looks to me that US elite has lost its cause a bit. What happened to the average Joe? How come you can't make anything decent anymore, say like my compressor that was made in 1968 by G.E? The damn thing NEVER broke, once.

      US used to be inspiration to the entire world, it had space programs, it offered education, it offered personal development it offered progress and now...now what?
      Last edited by Versus; 11 Aug 15,, 18:03.

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      • I think that it is good old XEROX effect in its full glory and that doesn't bode well for anyone.

        Comment


        • "...US used to be inspiration to the entire world, it had space programs, it offered education, it offered personal development it offered progress and now...now what?"

          Dunno.

          Move to Russia I guess.

          Good luck with that.
          Last edited by S2; 11 Aug 15,, 18:49.
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • Originally posted by S2 View Post
            "...US used to be inspiration to the entire world, it had space programs, it offered education, it offered personal development it offered progress and now...now what?"

            Dunno.

            Move to Russia I guess.

            Good luck with that.
            I am not moving anywhere but I will do my part in making my own country a better place to be.

            Comment


            • "I find very hard to understand, why you think that Russia doesn't have the right to protect its own national interests and why US has every right to protect its national interests."

              What's so difficult about understanding why an American thinks America has a right to protect our national interests?

              What's so difficult to understand why I don't believe Russian meddling in the Ukraine has a goddamned thing to do with vital Russian nat'l interests? I saw no persecuted russian-speakers in the Ukraine. Did you? I saw NOTHING suggesting that profound, deep trauma was inflicted upon those of eastern Ukraine by those in the west.

              Nothing.

              You, however, are absolutely fine with Russia seizing lands not theirs while issuing nuclear threats at all those deadly neo-fascist Swedes and Finns.

              Nat'l interests, I guess.

              Versus, I get it. You're a serb. Probably serbian orthodox. And you really dig that Putin thingy. Cool. Take heart. You've a champion for your aspirations.

              Probably makes you an enemy of my aspirations, though. Oh well...
              Last edited by S2; 11 Aug 15,, 19:11.
              "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
              "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

              Comment


              • Originally posted by S2 View Post
                "I find very hard to understand, why you think that Russia doesn't have the right to protect its own national interests and why US has every right to protect its national interests."

                What's so difficult about understanding why an American thinks America has a right to protect our national interests?

                What's so difficult to understand why I don't believe Russian meddling in the Ukraine has a goddamned thing to do with vital Russian nat'l interests? I saw no persecuted russian-speakers in the Ukraine. Did you? I saw NOTHING suggesting that profound, deep trauma was inflicted upon those of eastern Ukraine by those in the west.

                Nothing.

                You, however, are absolutely fine with Russia seizing lands not theirs while issuing nuclear threats at all those deadly neo-fascist Swedes and Finns.

                Nat'l interests, I guess.

                Versus, I get it. You're a serb. Probably serbian orthodox. And you really dig that Putin thingy. Cool. Take heart. You've a champion for your aspirations.

                Probably makes you an enemy of my aspirations, though. Oh well...
                Well, for starters, I am not an ballistic expert, but I am smart enough to calculate how much time it takes for a nuclear missile to reach Moscow from Ukraine. It renders Russian defense useless. How about Cuba? How did US reacted? Same thing.
                I am not fine at all and you are so very wrong about it. Do you think that 100 km distance from Romanian ballistic missile shield site will mean anything for me, if Russia launches nukes? Or if they hit Bondsteel in Kosovo? The IPAP we signed, maybe? No, I am dead in both ways. Nope, I am not fine with Russia and Crimea issue, I understand it but that doesn't mean that I approve it. It was necessary for their protection.
                Putinophilia? Please S2, I am straight and I am fed up with messianic pseudo saviors and I am especially allergic to charismatic leaders, particularly the Orthodox kind ones. I am bad Orthodox Christian, being part of the flock was never my thingy.
                Try to look it from my perspective, our military and defense capabilities have been reduced to zero and our competitors, which by the way have same insane plans as we did, are gathering their strength. Our population is decreasing while theirs is rising. How do you want me to feel in relation to this threat? I am sorry, but US had a major role in placing us in this position so I find it normal and rational to disagree when I see that it doesn't show any intention in making things a bit easier for us, quite contrary, it makes it ever more difficult.
                In 20th century, Russia helped us only once but messed up, us twice, by the way. So no I am not ok with them either.

                Comment


                • Do you really want to know how we got the sticker of "little Russians", short version? I mean the morgue thread will go in all juicy details with it, but I see that this bothers many of you here on the Wab.
                  Last edited by Versus; 11 Aug 15,, 21:37.

                  Comment


                  • Hmmm... So, it's USA or the West's fault that they used our pill on us and we were blond and took it? What were we (Yugoslavia) doing in Africa arming the good guys to liberate from the oppression? Everyone has a right for self-determination, bad bad westerners we help you... Well, karma is a bitch and we pissed the guys with long term memory.

                    Anyway, your guys took the major bashing once your politicos placed you in the bad guys shoes.

                    Yep, it's all someone else's fault nut ours.
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Versus View Post
                      Well, for starters, I am not an ballistic expert, but I am smart enough to calculate how much time it takes for a nuclear missile to reach Moscow from Ukraine.
                      The INF Treaty removed all ballistic missiles (both conventional and nuclear) with the range of 500kms to 5500 kms from Europe. The US is forbidden to station such missiles in the Ukraines if the Ukraines ever join NATO.
                      Chimo

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                        Hmmm... So, it's USA or the West's fault that they used our pill on us and we were blond and took it? What were we (Yugoslavia) doing in Africa arming the good guys to liberate from the oppression? Everyone has a right for self-determination, bad bad westerners we help you... Well, karma is a bitch and we pissed the guys with long term memory.

                        Anyway, your guys took the major bashing once your politicos placed you in the bad guys shoes.

                        Yep, it's all someone else's fault nut ours.
                        Oh no, Doc, by the time SFRY was created, that label was already there. But now, on the second thought, slow explanation will be better than the digest version.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          The INF Treaty removed all ballistic missiles (both conventional and nuclear) with the range of 500kms to 5500 kms from Europe. The US is forbidden to station such missiles in the Ukraines if the Ukraines ever join NATO.
                          And what if new treaty is signed?

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                          • Originally posted by Versus View Post
                            And what if new treaty is signed?
                            What new treaty? The INF is between Washington DC and Moscow.
                            Chimo

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                            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              What new treaty? The INF is between Washington DC and Moscow.
                              I meant what if someone concludes that treaty is broken, lets say with the positioning of Iskander missile launchers? US and Russia are big and powerful countries, they can do what ever they want and that doesn't ease our situation.

                              To put it bluntly, the trust has been broken and in my case, in both US and Russia.

                              Comment


                              • Both sides have been fairly consistent in observing the treaty. The ISKANDER is classified as a conventional SRBM with a range of 500 kms. Just borderline enough not to be considered a violation of the INF Treaty.

                                As far as Arms Control Treaties singatories are concerned, all sides (with the exception of China) have been consistent in reducing nuclear weapons.

                                There are disagreements but none that fundamentally puts the Treaties at risk.

                                It must be stated that it is lawyers who wrote these treaties and they have enough loop holes to make things very nasty. An ICBM can be used as an IRBM.

                                But the point about distance is really moot. All nuclear powers do not have a launch-on-warning. There have been too many false alarms to even accept that. However, all nuclear powers do have a launch-on-impact policy. If there was going to be a nuclear attack by either side, both side would wait until there is confirmation of a nuclear explosion before launching their missiles.
                                Chimo

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