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Ukraine: After the May 25 Election

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  • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
    You're welcome. I remember your question differently; it was certainly shorter. :)
    Your memory still serves you well. Appologies for not being clearer in the original post. Mobile devices and fat fingers dont go well.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    • Sail4ever, FYI we don't have ICBMs with conventional warheads.

      It would be like playing the Super Bowl as a flag football game....in pads....with Janet Jackson as a cheer leader.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

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      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
        Sail4ever, FYI we don't have ICBMs with conventional warheads.

        It would be like playing the Super Bowl as a flag football game....in pads....with Janet Jackson as a cheer leader.
        Don't be absurd. The point was to set back the Russian threat. Have you got a better idea? We need some creative thought here. Not negativity. Think outside the box. If you can't think of anything then perhaps we should congratulate Obama for a job well done since no-one can think of anything better to do. He must be doing as well as can be expected. It's not his fault if the houses have tied his hands. What is he supposed to do? Sanctions are all he is allowed. Whose fault is that? Putin is obviously being much more creative. By the time sanctions really hurt Putin will own the Donbas. Unless of course you know of some miracle turnaround that I have overlooked...

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        • Originally posted by sail4evr View Post
          Don't be absurd.
          It's the law. ICBMs are nuclear delivery vehicles. Period. No ifs ands ors buts.

          Originally posted by sail4evr View Post
          The point was to set back the Russian threat. Have you got a better idea?
          Several actually. Surface the entire SSBN fleet off both of Russia's coast. A flight of B-52s rushing their borders and challenging their air defences. A REFORGER exercise even at the division level. Putin wants a return to the Cold War. Fine. Let's show them who's ready to play because I can guarrantee you it ain't the Russians.
          Chimo

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          • Originally posted by sail4evr View Post
            Don't be absurd. The point was to set back the Russian threat. Have you got a better idea? We need some creative thought here. Not negativity. Think outside the box. If you can't think of anything then perhaps we should congratulate Obama for a job well done since no-one can think of anything better to do. He must be doing as well as can be expected. It's not his fault if the houses have tied his hands. What is he supposed to do? Sanctions are all he is allowed. Whose fault is that? Putin is obviously being much more creative. By the time sanctions really hurt Putin will own the Donbas. Unless of course you know of some miracle turnaround that I have overlooked...
            Look at a map of combat over the past month. The 'miracle turnaround' is that the Ukrainian Army is doing fairly well. The increasing frequency of Russian claims about 'destroyed' battalions (3 different ones in 3 weeks) should tell you who is worried here and which way this is going. The 'Russian threat' (to Ukraine I assume you mean) is being set back. America is limited in what it can do. That doesn't mean there isn't scope for more, but there are still limits. Dropping a cruise missile on the Russian border (I'm assuming that is what you mean, not an ICBM) is risky & possibly beyond the scope of what Obama can do or wants to do.

            Simply making up stuff & calling it a 'solution' doesn't actually make it a solution.
            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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            • A B2 deployment to RAF Lakenheath, enough to keep one in the air at any one time. Make sure it gets photographed over Poland. Tell France it's Mistral aint going anywhere.

              A shit load of better options than launching ICBMS....

              But... it isn't black and white. You aren't saving the Europeans from anyone. The EU is integrated with all sorts of different political forces at play, wheeling and dealing with many different pressures and inducements seeking podiums and placement. It is the same Europe that has produced the same non-core results and absolute disdain for action with conviction when the worst atrocities of an unchecked state reign free.
              Last edited by Chunder; 03 Aug 14,, 05:29. Reason: clarity
              Ego Numquam

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              • Originally posted by sail4evr View Post
                Don't be absurd. The point was to set back the Russian threat. Have you got a better idea? We need some creative thought here. Not negativity. Think outside the box. If you can't think of anything then perhaps we should congratulate Obama for a job well done since no-one can think of anything better to do. He must be doing as well as can be expected. It's not his fault if the houses have tied his hands. What is he supposed to do? Sanctions are all he is allowed. Whose fault is that? Putin is obviously being much more creative. By the time sanctions really hurt Putin will own the Donbas. Unless of course you know of some miracle turnaround that I have overlooked...
                Albany absurd? And you advocate the US dropping an ICBM over there.

                I sense your frustration that there doesn't seem to be a plan to deal with the Russians. But be realistic. We here can only speculate on what the US should do. There's a great deal we don't know. We're not privy to what goes on in the sit room at the White House or the JSC tank over at Defense or in the office of the president of Russia. We can't see the intel. We're all relying on the same media reports and uTube videos, and a lot of that is inaccurate and laced with spin or outright propaganda.
                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                • "Albany absurd? And you advocate the US dropping an ICBM over there."

                  Comedic.

                  Well done, JAD.
                  "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                  "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                  • The EU has rescinded restrictions on technology and military supplies to Ukraine imposed under the criminal Yanukovych regime.

                    Below the surface, Europeans are exploring avenues to acquire the two French constructed Mistral ships (Vladivostok/Sevastopol) purchased by Russia. Ideas include a purchase by the European Union or NATO.

                    MH17 investigators continue to collect bodies and body parts at the crash site. The Russians and their mercenaries callously neglected the remains of 80 souls whose corpses have been decomposing in daytime temps of 95° F.

                    Ukrainian forces have taken the villages of Krasnogorovka and Staromikhailovka, further tightening the military noose around Donetsk.


                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    Look at a map of combat over the past month. The 'miracle turnaround' is that the Ukrainian Army is doing fairly well.
                    I told everyone after the fall of Yanukovych that Ukraine would not simply roll over to Russian aggression. There were/are many problems to overcome. Ukraine has not seen battle since WWII. Military equipment is antiquated and most of the heavier weapons platforms are decades old. The military was neglected by a succession of corrupt governments. The civilian toll is high because we have no modern precision guided weapons or targeting systems. The Russians understand our weapons systems (Soviet designed) at least as well and probably better than we do. We are facing a Russian Goliath that has been dedicated to modernizing its military. Our current successes have come at a high cost and we are in need of resolute foreign assistance.

                    On the local tactical level, we are doing very well and are on the verge of a double encirclement on the rebel strongholds of Donetsk and Luhansk. But the larger tactical picture is extremely troubling. If Putin orders Russian forces across the border, our ATO forces will be encircled within a day or so. A northern pincer from the Russian Western Military District (Belgorod) will enter Ukraine in the Kharkiv Oblast and travel south. A southern pincer will enter from Crimea and sprint northeast through the Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts. These are the anvils. The hammer will enter the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine from the Russian Southern Military District at Rostov-on-Don and push westward. Putin would probably do this under the aegis of "peacekeeping forces" to "protect Russian speakers". Remember, Ukraine served as a Soviet buffer against the West so most Ukrainian military bases and airfields are congregated in western and central Ukraine. The government ATO forces in eastern Ukraine would probably be enveloped and obliterated within a matter of days.

                    sigpic

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                    • Posted on Twitter by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. Poor form indeed, but this Tweet encapsulates how much of the world views these presidents.

                      sigpic

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                      • Originally posted by S2 View Post
                        "Albany absurd? And you advocate the US dropping an ICBM over there."

                        Comedic.

                        Well done, JAD.
                        What's absurd is talking to me about flag football and cheerleaders.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                          Posted on Twitter by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. Poor form indeed, but this Tweet encapsulates how much of the world views these presidents.

                          Yes and in some parts of the world leopards are an endangered species. Not to mention that that cat has no more interest in Putin than where its next meal is coming from. That cat would not fight for Putin. There is no loyalty. I would also bet my last $ the cat is sedated and that is the way Russia likes its allies. sedated and on the leash.
                          Last edited by sail4evr; 03 Aug 14,, 11:34.

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                          • Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                            Putin would probably do this under the aegis of "peacekeeping forces"
                            I said this weeks ago. END OF STORY

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                            • Originally posted by Minskaya View Post


                              Tanks are crossing a movable pontoon bridge and one can see vehicles lined up that have already crossed. This seems to be the Siverskiy-Donets river in far southeastern Luhansk oblast (Krasnodon raion) probably somewhere near the village of Popivka. The white rectangles visible in the treeline across the river probably mark the border between Russia and Ukraine. The river here is entirely in Ukraine. From this point rural back-roads will take you westward to the town of Sukhodilsk and highway M04. Unconfirmed. Kyiv is seeking anyone familiar with this remote location. On 14 July, Ukraine reported that a An-26 was shot down in this area by a missile fired from Russia. On July 31, residents reported that a Russian military convoy of 50 vehicles passed through Sukhodilsk.
                              So which points of Russia's proposed encirclement of Ukrainian forces are these Russian tanks? Where are they likely headed? The convoy of 50 Russian vehicles. What happened to them?

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                              • Originally posted by sail4evr View Post
                                Yes and in some parts of the world leopards are an endangered species. Not to mention that that cat has no more interest in Putin than where its next meal is coming from. That cat would not fight for Putin. There is no loyalty. I would also bet my last $ the cat is sedated and that is the way Russia likes its allies. sedated and on the leash.
                                It's propaganda intended to burnish Putin's image as a man of action and fearlessness. Obama is portrayed as the cuddly poodle antithesis of Putin. To that end, many around the world consider the contrasting images an apt facsimile.
                                sigpic

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