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Corruption negating economic growth in South Asia: Transparency International

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    I don't buy the premise of the opening article, that so called corruption is affecting us. What affects economic growth is the inability to enact clear policy. Nobody wants to invest in an uncertain climate. Where what is said today may change tomorrow. Reducing barriers of entry for business. Making it easier.
    DE.,

    Corruption also adds to entry barriers. suppose you want to set up a factory. You would have 20 power brokers hounding you promising to either open or close doors for your based on how much you grease their palms. Aside from the ethical considerations, they would pose a significant business risk. They obviously do not have a price list, so how much you pay is based on how you negotiate. They may not actually have the power to open the doors they claim, so much of your payout would be lost. Also, if word gets out, you can be in serious trouble, especially if you are a public company.

    Conclusion: corruption slows down business
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Oracle View Post
      Wow! I didn't knew about that. Thank you for sharing this information on how low some of the BJP politicians can get.



      I agree. But then what is the solution? Who should money be given to? All in all, it is more of an accountability issue.

      A small story. The year I graduated, a local guy asked me if I can provide him a xerox copy of my degree certificate. He was willing to pay 20K. So you know, fresh outta college, and joining time of the Company some months away, greed overtook my honest intentions. I talked to my Dad, and got to know that the guy got some projects worth crores under PMGSY (Prime Minister's Gram Sadak Yojana). And he advised me not to be greedy as if and when there is a central audit, I might get in trouble. I thank my luck stars for the good decision I made. And yeah, the roads are on paper, not on the ground.

      Gram - Village; Sadak - Road; Yojana - Policy.
      This reminds me of that movie "Well Done Abba", only it was about a bawdi (stepwell) instead of a road.

      Why should we give money to MPs. what is the PWD there for. what is the District and block administrations there for ? this whole MP fund is a ticket for waste and corruption. MPs should be chosen by what they do in Parliament on behalf of their constituents, not by how many ill conceived stepwells they set up or how many hearses they buy for their favourite clubs
      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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      • #18
        Originally posted by antimony View Post
        This reminds me of that movie "Well Done Abba", only it was about a bawdi (stepwell) instead of a road.

        Why should we give money to MPs. what is the PWD there for. what is the District and block administrations there for ? this whole MP fund is a ticket for waste and corruption. MPs should be chosen by what they do in Parliament on behalf of their constituents, not by how many ill conceived stepwells they set up or how many hearses they buy for their favourite clubs
        Okay, but what then should be the portfolio of an MP? He has to do something right?

        Probably, this is what I think - an MP gets elected. He gets the administration of his constituency together and takes stock of works (pending and ongoing). He then liaisons between the administration and the Central Government in bringing funds for development works. Is this what you're saying?

        And 5 crore/year is too little for actual development to happen on the ground.
        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by antimony View Post
          DE.,

          Corruption also adds to entry barriers. suppose you want to set up a factory. You would have 20 power brokers hounding you promising to either open or close doors for your based on how much you grease their palms. Aside from the ethical considerations, they would pose a significant business risk. They obviously do not have a price list, so how much you pay is based on how you negotiate. They may not actually have the power to open the doors they claim, so much of your payout would be lost. Also, if word gets out, you can be in serious trouble, especially if you are a public company.

          Conclusion: corruption slows down business
          I had this is mind, and then it fade away. This is exactly the case.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by antimony View Post
            DE.,

            Corruption also adds to entry barriers. suppose you want to set up a factory. You would have 20 power brokers hounding you promising to either open or close doors for your based on how much you grease their palms. Aside from the ethical considerations, they would pose a significant business risk. They obviously do not have a price list, so how much you pay is based on how you negotiate. They may not actually have the power to open the doors they claim, so much of your payout would be lost. Also, if word gets out, you can be in serious trouble, especially if you are a public company.

            Conclusion: corruption slows down business
            I was thinking along similar lines, though you were more eloquent. 'Corruption' isn't just one thing or one type of thing. It is many. It exists in every system to some extent, but takes different forms. Politicians talking bribes/awarding contracts & jobs to favourites & 'pork barelling' of some type are fairly widespread, though differ in extent from nation to nation. What appears less common in western nations at least is bribes working almost as a form of 'taxation' at every stage of the process. I won't say it doesn't happen, but it isn't common. This type of corruption is extremely damaging economically, as you say, because it adds to costs and uncertainty of doing business. It also undermines rule of law, which is fundamental for doing business.
            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
              Okay, but what then should be the portfolio of an MP? He has to do something right?

              Probably, this is what I think - an MP gets elected. He gets the administration of his constituency together and takes stock of works (pending and ongoing). He then liaisons between the administration and the Central Government in bringing funds for development works. Is this what you're saying?

              And 5 crore/year is too little for actual development to happen on the ground.
              Actually that is not a terrible idea. He can act as a monitor for projects and push them along when they get stuck. You might want to write to the media channels (like NDTV) about this. I am not joking
              "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                I was thinking along similar lines, though you were more eloquent. 'Corruption' isn't just one thing or one type of thing. It is many. It exists in every system to some extent, but takes different forms. Politicians talking bribes/awarding contracts & jobs to favourites & 'pork barelling' of some type are fairly widespread, though differ in extent from nation to nation. What appears less common in western nations at least is bribes working almost as a form of 'taxation' at every stage of the process. I won't say it doesn't happen, but it isn't common. This type of corruption is extremely damaging economically, as you say, because it adds to costs and uncertainty of doing business. It also undermines rule of law, which is fundamental for doing business.

                BF,

                This is the curse of corruption in India, the common man gets hit. This comes at all levels. Suppose you want to build a house, the local "club" (basically pseudo local gang) insists that you buy material from them, or else. You apply for permits and of course you have to grease some palms unless you want your file to be stuck around for years. It works the other way too. You want to get a driving license but are actually not too keen on driving. The right pieces of silver in the right hands can get you a spanking new license without the inconvenience of actually learning to drive.

                Its all very, for the lack of better word, small scale. but it tends to add up and is a major annoyance. More importantly, for someone who cannot afford these taxes, life becomes a hassle.
                "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by antimony View Post
                  Actually that is not a terrible idea. He can act as a monitor for projects and push them along when they get stuck. You might want to write to the media channels (like NDTV) about this. I am not joking
                  Why would NDTV listen to me? I am a nobody buddy. Maybe, they'd listen to you. They always do from people outside the country. And I'm not kidding.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                    Why would NDTV listen to me? I am a nobody buddy. Maybe, they'd listen to you. They always do from people outside the country. And I'm not kidding.
                    I thought they took calls on some of the broad based talk shows where they discuss policy with the audience. Unfrunately, we do not get NDTV here, especially since I refuse to subscribe to cable
                    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by antimony View Post
                      I thought they took calls on some of the broad based talk shows where they discuss policy with the audience. Unfrunately, we do not get NDTV here, especially since I refuse to subscribe to cable
                      They do, but those views hardly reach the intended audience i.e. the policy makers. Most talk shows comprises of people who have excelled in their respective fields. E.g. Mahroof Raza, who is invited on Pakistani topics. I do not have the credentials for them to listen to me. I'll have 30 secs to put my view across, i.e if the anchors do not do an Arnab on me.

                      Since we are talking about corruption, how about a retirement age for politicians too? And how about they too save & invest like the most of us post retirement? I guess I'm asking for change too soon.
                      Last edited by Oracle; 24 May 14,, 06:30.
                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                        Since we are talking about corruption, how about a retirement age for politicians too? And how about they too save & invest like the most of us post retirement? I guess I'm asking for change too soon.
                        This is one of my dreams. Mandatory retirement at the age of 60 for all politicians.
                        Plus rigorous appraisals each year they are in office by a powerful neutral evaluation organization which then releases ratings to the public.

                        After all us ordinary employees get harassed and second guessed on every single thing we do each year, the representatives we the people send to high office should be scrutinized even more
                        For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by antimony View Post
                          I thought they took calls on some of the broad based talk shows where they discuss policy with the audience. Unfrunately, we do not get NDTV here, especially since I refuse to subscribe to cable
                          Believe me its no loss. They have become more and more left leaning over the years.
                          Barkha Dutt is extremely irritating. You might accidentally blast the tv with one of your handguns.
                          For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by antimony View Post
                            DE.,

                            Corruption also adds to entry barriers. suppose you want to set up a factory. You would have 20 power brokers hounding you promising to either open or close doors for your based on how much you grease their palms. Aside from the ethical considerations, they would pose a significant business risk. They obviously do not have a price list, so how much you pay is based on how you negotiate. They may not actually have the power to open the doors they claim, so much of your payout would be lost. Also, if word gets out, you can be in serious trouble, especially if you are a public company.

                            Conclusion: corruption slows down business
                            Rent seeking by the state. Common in developing countries.

                            All those barriers erected in an earlier era for the state to control/interfere at many points. There was also a lot of the self-reliance mantra going on too. Don't make it easy for foreigners to ever get a foothold again. Over play self-reliance and you end up with an autarchy.

                            Works at extracting tolls in a captive market. Has the opposite effect when capital controls are reduced.
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 25 May 14,, 03:18.

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