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  • #61
    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
    One learns something new every day.

    Yue = Barbarian(s)
    Actually it doesn't. It's just a word assigned to represent that region.

    Nan 南 = south, that is correct.

    Together (越南), it means south of that region.

    Literally, yue 越 means to over take, to supersede.

    I suspect the word came from 粵, which has the same pronunciation as 越. The province of Canton, or Guandong, was named 粵. The dialect is called 粵語. Where is Vietnam? South of Guandong...

    That's just my uneducated guess.

    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
    what does it make of Yuan?
    There are many different words with that pronunciation. The closest one from the English spelling would be 元 (dollar) or 圓 (circle ).
    Last edited by gunnut; 23 May 14,, 02:15.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    • #62
      gunnut beat me to it.

      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      One learns something new every day.

      Yue = Barbarian(s)

      what does it make of Yuan?
      If you’re thinking of the currency (renminbi or yuan), it’s an entirely different character.

      Yue: 越, means “more” (More South: Yue Nan, but don’t get fixated on the grammar) is also the name of a first millennium BC kingdom in the Zhejiang/Jiangsu/Shanghai area. After they were defeated, loyalists moved south to Fujian (Minyue) and Guangdong (Nanyue). Naturally, as a defeated people they were considered barbarians.

      Yuan: 元 means money or round (as a coin) and is the name of the Yuan (Mongol) Dynasty. The same character (written 円, but both originate from 圓) is pronounced “Yen” in Japanese and “Won” (원) in Korean.
      Trust me?
      I'm an economist!

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      • #63
        This discussion about the meaning of 越 is kind of absurd. They were still 英国人 when the Opium War started. They were still 日本人 as they quite literally raped and pillaged through mainland China. And if the US and China over go to war god forbidding, Americans will still be 美国人. There's too much reading into the etymology of state names relative to modern day political perceptions.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by cdude View Post
          If you have visited China recently, you would understand they are rightly so.
          How about you smarten THE FUCK UP! For a guy who supposedly got a pulse on the Chinese demographics, you sure are too fucking stupid to see what the fuck is going on!

          You are looking at an Argentina-Falkland scenario vis-a-vi Japan and India.

          The CCP woke up. They're not guarranteed a win in ... and more likely a lost ... so they're picking on Vietnam. Vietnam. Even you can figure this out. The CCP can't win against a Big Boy (Japan) nor the local boy (India), so they're picking on the small boy (Vietnam).

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ace16807 View Post
            This discussion about the meaning of 越 is kind of absurd. They were still 英国人 when the Opium War started. They were still 日本人 as they quite literally raped and pillaged through mainland China. And if the US and China over go to war god forbidding, Americans will still be 美国人. There's too much reading into the etymology of state names relative to modern day political perceptions.
            I was just thinking out loud how the name came about.

            Ever wondered why the name for Greece sounds nothing like it? 希臘 Then I realized Greece was known in the old days as Hellas, which sounds like 希臘

            Chinese name for Germany, 德國, sounds nothing like it. But it sounds about right in German (Deutschland) 德意志

            Mainland calls the country of Georgia, 格鲁吉亚, which threw my dad off. Taiwan calls it 喬治亞. Then I realized Mainland uses Russian pronunciation while Taiwan uses American pronunciation.

            The funny one is United Kingdom. We don't have a name for it. We call it 英國, which is literally "the country of England." Or we call it 大英帝國, literally, the Great English Empire. Or 大不列顛, Great Britain. But there's nothing even close to United Kingdom.
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by gunnut View Post
              The funny one is United Kingdom. We don't have a name for it. We call it 英國, which is literally "the country of England." Or we call it 大英帝國, literally, the Great English Empire. Or 大不列顛, Great Britain. But there's nothing even close to United Kingdom.
              I guess 统一王 (Tǒngyī Wáng) sounds too much like the guy at the take-away place . . .
              Trust me?
              I'm an economist!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                How about you smarten THE FUCK UP! For a guy who supposedly got a pulse on the Chinese demographics, you sure are too fucking stupid to see what the fuck is going on!

                You are looking at an Argentina-Falkland scenario vis-a-vi Japan and India.

                The CCP woke up. They're not guarranteed a win in ... and more likely a lost ... so they're picking on Vietnam. Vietnam. Even you can figure this out. The CCP can't win against a Big Boy (Japan) nor the local boy (India), so they're picking on the small boy (Vietnam).
                The current generation Chinese think high of their achievements, and that implies they want to pick a fight with India and Japan?

                Where is that coming from?

                You need to go read my post again and calm down.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by DOR View Post
                  I guess 统一王 (Tǒngyī Wáng) sounds too much like the guy at the take-away place . . .
                  Sounds like a type instant noodle that I had when I was a kid.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by cdude View Post
                    The current generation Chinese think high of their achievements, and that implies they want to pick a fight with India and Japan?

                    Where is that coming from?

                    You need to go read my post again and calm down.
                    Actually I have been reading your posts and the replies you give to others and I have come to the conclusion that you only accept one view point and that is yours; or would I be more correct in you are repeating ad nauseum the official policy and line of the Chinese Communist Party and Chinese government which are one and the same. So you don't add anything of value to this debate which means all you are doing is wasting peoples time. i would suggest that when you have an original thought that is of value maybe then post again. Nā mihi, ngatimozart.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ngatimozart View Post
                      Actually I have been reading your posts and the replies you give to others and I have come to the conclusion that you only accept one view point and that is yours; or would I be more correct in you are repeating ad nauseum the official policy and line of the Chinese Communist Party and Chinese government which are one and the same. So you don't add anything of value to this debate which means all you are doing is wasting peoples time. i would suggest that when you have an original thought that is of value maybe then post again. Nā mihi, ngatimozart.
                      You forgot to add that I got paid 50 cents per post.

                      50 Cent Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      Thank you so very much for cooperating. Loves this 50 cents (or 3 yuan RMB in this neighborhood).

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                      • #71
                        In Vietnam, Rare Self-Immolation Highlights Anger Against China

                        In Vietnam, Rare Self-Immolation Highlights Anger Against China

                        HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — A 67-year-old Vietnamese woman died after setting herself on fire in downtown Ho Chi Minh City on Friday in protest against China's deployment of an oil rig in waters claimed by Hanoi, state media reported.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                          The oil rig is well within the EEZ of the Paracel Islands under any possible interpretation of the UNCLOS,
                          UNCLOS says "rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone". If Paracel Islands do have an attached EEZ, does Okinotorishima have too? And China claims the drill platform is operating inside its territorial water which is also not true because it is 17 miles away from the closest island of the groups.


                          Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                          and given that Hanoi acknowledged the Paracels as part of China in the 1950s, they really can't complain (though the North did tear up the peace treaty with Saigon).
                          The letter from Pham Van Dong only mentioned 12 mile limit territorial water of PRC but did not say anything about those two group of islands. They were under Saigon's control at that time. Hanoi could not give away things that they did not have.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                            They could only muster a token sacrafical regiment to challenge the Chinese two months after the Chinese made their breach into Northern Vietnam in 1984.
                            May I ask your source? Three divisions 313, 314 and 316 and several independent regiments fought on the border in 84 campaign. Troops from few other divisions also rotated through Vi Xuyen front. PLA claimed to kill 3000-4000 Vietnamese troops. That number could not come from "a sacrificial regiment".

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by hanswu25 View Post
                              May I ask your source? Three divisions 313, 314 and 316 and several independent regiments fought on the border in 84 campaign. Troops from few other divisions also rotated through Vi Xuyen front. PLA claimed to kill 3000-4000 Vietnamese troops. That number could not come from "a sacrificial regiment".
                              The Chinese only recorded one single major engagement from that war, two months after they made their breach. Their claims of dead matches regimental strength.
                              Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 25 May 14,, 07:37.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by hanswu25 View Post
                                The letter from Pham Van Dong only mentioned 12 mile limit territorial water of PRC but did not say anything about those two group of islands. They were under Saigon's control at that time. Hanoi could not give away things that they did not have.
                                You do know that Saigon lost that battle.

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