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  • #76
    They stood to you just like PRC stands to Pakistan.

    If you need a hint, look for the good Col's quote on Pakistan, China and India.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      They stood to you just like PRC stands to Pakistan.

      If you need a hint, look for the good Col's quote on Pakistan, China and India.
      There's a big difference between the USSR standing between India and the USA and the PRC standing between Pakistan and India.

      HUGE difference.

      The relative stakes are simply not in the same ballpark.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Doktor View Post
        Most lately Milosevic. But, BF already covered it.
        Charles Taylor in Liberia is another. Forced Qaddafi to hand over Lockerbie suspects & change other aspects of Libya's behaviour.

        The issue isn't as simple as 'turning people', but on of influencing the behaviour of a particular government or individuals related to it. Fail more often than they succeed, but still can succeed.
        sigpic

        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
          Charles Taylor in Liberia is another. Forced Qaddafi to hand over Lockerbie suspects & change other aspects of Libya's behaviour.

          The issue isn't as simple as 'turning people', but on of influencing the behaviour of a particular government or individuals related to it. Fail more often than they succeed, but still can succeed.
          Actually, I'd argue if they fail. Once they are strictly imposed, the regime in question is no longer as big of a threat as before them.
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
            Actually, I'd argue if they fail. Once they are strictly imposed, the regime in question is no longer as big of a threat as before them.
            That is part of the point here. The threat of sanctions may give Putin pause to think about his next move. Clearly the US & EU are holding off the sledgehammer in part because they don't want to put him in a position where he has nothing to lose. His ability to threaten Ukraine further has limited the response to Crimea. As he crosses more lines they put on more sanctions. If he invades the rest of Ukraine they get really serious. The US in particular can drop some serious financial bombs.

            Will this stop Putin at this point? probably not. Sanctions don't work that way usually. What can be done is to take away some of his money & therefore limit some of his power. This game has a lot of dimensions, not just the day to day one. Weakening Russia in the longer term may not save Ukraine today, but if Russia has shown itself determined to return to its imperialist past they can limit its destructiveness.

            I suggested a while back on one of these threads that Putin runs the risk of making Russia increasingly dependent on China as it burns ties with the West. In the short term that means Russia can thumb its nose at the West. In the long term it threatens the resurgent Russian greatness Putin holds out as a promise.
            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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            • #81
              Sanctions may be really painful. But they are temporary.
              Crimea and Novorossiya are forever.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by andrew View Post
                Sanctions may be really painful. But they are temporary.
                Crimea and Novorossiya are forever.
                I'm sure Stalin thought that about the Baltic states in 1940.
                sigpic

                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                • #83
                  Crimea and New Russia are Russian lands,being settled,build and defended by them.Everything else was further West were conquests of existing&established nations .And it attracted the normal Russophobia.
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    I'm sure Stalin thought that about the Baltic states in 1940.
                    Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are Russian territories temporary occupied by the West.
                    I'm sure they are next in the Kremlin's list.
                    Just wait a moment till the Ukrainian affair is finished

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                    • #85
                      1. Andrew, your history is incorrect. The Baltics are Balts and have a Nordic/Germanic background and history. They are not of the Eastern Orthodox religions as a rule. They were part of other empires prior to their winnig their independence in 1920. The USSR illegally occupied them in 1940 and they regained their independence when the Soviet Union crumbled.

                      They are free and independent countries.

                      2. And this is your warning from a moderator. Again, advocating for the subjugation and take over of sovereign natiosn will not be tolerated on the WAB. Any further activities or suggestions of thsi sort will result in disciplinary actions.
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

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                      • #86
                        S2,

                        Minnie,

                        Another example to which I referred in my P.M. He complains of his pay and fails to perform his DUTY but takes his salary all the same from a government upon whom he depends for his livelihood but won't defend.

                        God help you because nobody else will if your own manhood cower from thugs.

                        Not at all sure how those men could look each other in the eye upon returning to the station.
                        wonder if there's instructions from the central government not to do anything to provoke a russian invasion.

                        if that's the case it's silly beyond words. if russia needs a provocation she'll MAKE one.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                        • #87
                          Sanctions list, Russia complains about NATO "buildup", reassures US SecDef no attack, etc.

                          BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Russia alarmed over US-Nato military moves
                          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                          • #88
                            "...instructions..." weren't his "go-to" card when asked.

                            His knee-jerk response was his pay didn't justify his obligations. I suspect we've received his honest response.
                            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              S2,



                              wonder if there's instructions from the central government not to do anything to provoke a russian invasion.

                              if that's the case it's silly beyond words. if russia needs a provocation she'll MAKE one.

                              More convenient if one is provided, don't you think? Still, to your point, Russia does make up provocations. The granddaddy of all of them is demanding Ukraine do nothing about the take over of its gov't buildings in the east by pro-Russian groups. The absurdity of it is mind boggling.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                              • #90
                                What is mind boggling is that we all know that Putin does not want a war. He's bluffing. He's putting everything he got into the bluff. Mihas is right. A single determined Ukrainian battalion forcing the surrender of a single Russian company and this is all over.

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