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What is China's budget for new military equipment?

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  • What is China's budget for new military equipment?

    Anyone care to venture a guess?

  • #2
    Mithridates

    New equipment? Good luck finding that out. The official budget for 2014 is $130+ billion, a 12% jump over 2013. How much goes to new equipment? We don't know. We can only guess by looking at new systems in the works and those coming on line. It's believed China hides a lot of military spending. Experts say real spending comes close to double the official number.

    This may be helpful: As budgets soar, China still fears its military isn’t growing fast enough - The Washington Post
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
      Mithridates

      New equipment? Good luck finding that out. The official budget for 2014 is $130+ billion, a 12% jump over 2013. How much goes to new equipment? We don't know. We can only guess by looking at new systems in the works and those coming on line. It's believed China hides a lot of military spending. Experts say real spending comes close to double the official number.

      This may be helpful: As budgets soar, China still fears its military isn’t growing fast enough - The Washington Post
      Given the amount of new gear they seem to be pumping out, I'm tempted to guess at least half the US number (if not more), about $50b.

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      • #4
        Mithridates, if someone gives you an exact number, don't buy it.

        We have at least 2 members here who I strongly believe have the idea, but I am fairly certain they wont pop up to answer your question.

        Call it professional courtesy if you like.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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        • #5
          As many in the China watching community say, why do you want to know?

          While it isn't irrelevant, a budget number has a tendency to distract from the true analysis of what are they capable of now, what will they be capable of x number of years moving forward. Ascribing a certain value to a dollar amount is difficult, assuming even if it is correct. What is far more indicative is the performance and deployment of the PLA. Also, relaying a word of warning that has been reiterated to me many times over, the increasing rate of spending on personnel in the PLA as well as internal security are just as if not more interesting than GAD expenditures.

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          • #6
            How much is it gone due to corruption? We see new stories about Chinese generals' spending splurges on their houses, mistresses' houses, luxury cars, and the like.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
              How much is it gone due to corruption? We see new stories about Chinese generals' spending splurges on their houses, mistresses' houses, luxury cars, and the like.
              I believe corruption is more rampant in Logistics (GLD/associated branch and service departments) than hardware RDA (GAD/Equipment Departments). When land management, construction, finances and general usage equipment (e.g. construction vehicles/supplies) all fall under your purview it becomes tempting to use your position to line your pockets. You'll notice the high profile PLA corruption cases (Gu Junshan- GLD Deputy Director, Wang Shouye- PLAN DCDR and former PLAN Logistics Dept Director) involve Logistics, not Armaments/Equipment department officials.

              So while skimming and some degree of corruption no doubt occurs in RDA, it's probably minor relative to losses incurred in GLD.

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              • #8
                Considering that the Chinese aren't putting in more than $30-35 billion at most in RDA, they're getting a pretty good return on investment, based on what we can see in open source material.

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                • #9
                  I don't know if I would term it as a good RoI. The relationship between the military (PLA) and defense industry (MIIT/SASTIND/state enterprises) isn't exactly peachy. Although the PLA through GAD now has greater influence and control over where R&D funding goes, they do not technically control the money. There is an anecdotal sense of paranoia that branches across the two entities. For instance, because the PLA does not pay for a system until it is physically delivered to them, they tend to have less than optimal input on any given system. In the same sense, the defense industries, worried that the PLA might break something and reject purchasing a system prior to delivery, won't let the PLA touch anything until they're ready to deliver the system.

                  While this system is getting better, there are still distinct parallel entities that do not interact as much as they probably should. PLA milreps might provide a nominal presence in the defense industry but these individuals interact and are integrated more into the factory or office they are stationed than the PLA. Defense industry personnel going over to support delivered products is equally nominal.

                  This is conjecture/speculation on my part, but this might explain some weird acquisitions that the PLA has made (Luhai class destroyer for example).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ace16807 View Post
                    I don't know if I would term it as a good RoI. The relationship between the military (PLA) and defense industry (MIIT/SASTIND/state enterprises) isn't exactly peachy. Although the PLA through GAD now has greater influence and control over where R&D funding goes, they do not technically control the money. There is an anecdotal sense of paranoia that branches across the two entities. For instance, because the PLA does not pay for a system until it is physically delivered to them, they tend to have less than optimal input on any given system. In the same sense, the defense industries, worried that the PLA might break something and reject purchasing a system prior to delivery, won't let the PLA touch anything until they're ready to deliver the system.

                    While this system is getting better, there are still distinct parallel entities that do not interact as much as they probably should. PLA milreps might provide a nominal presence in the defense industry but these individuals interact and are integrated more into the factory or office they are stationed than the PLA. Defense industry personnel going over to support delivered products is equally nominal.

                    This is conjecture/speculation on my part, but this might explain some weird acquisitions that the PLA has made (Luhai class destroyer for example).
                    Makes sense, but I think the Luhai had to do more with a "We have to delivery something!" mentality in the aftermath of the Third Taiwan Straits Crisis.

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