Ukraine Elections and Political Developments

[The_One]

Look... I don't mean to get all nasty here. But I don't like being called things, like "propagandist". I simply have my point of view, and had presented it here, respectfully. You came in and started to DISrespect me. I will not simply take that, from anyone.

[PeeCoffee]

No worries. You and Snapper are each presenting your side of an argument in a discussion on a forum.

Essentially many or all will take a side in a given debate...some will label another a propagandist.

No worries. Sometimes an argument gets heated. For the sake of intelligent discussion maybe all should take a deep breath of fresh air before returning to the discussion without name-calling on whichever side they wish to buttress.

[Mihais]

You speak of disrespect? You take everyone on this forum for idiots but still have the guts to speak of disrespect?
You are not showing another side,for the simple reason you are completely disingenuous .You know,there are quite enough non-Ukrainian sources about what units,where they are and what they do.Speaking only of open sources.
Yet you come with your girls with guns...

The situation is simple.You either play the part of a propagandist or you have a much sadder position.I gave you the credit for trying to be useful to your country.But you try to deny that...

Just for curious,any idea why we took Crimeea ?Why was any war between our countries?Just curious(not that I expect much).

[troung]

Hating Russians is the only purpose in life the Ukrops have :D

It's literally their whole state ideology. Without Russia, there to hate and demonize and blame for all their problems, they'd all shoot themselves or something, because their lives would have no more meaning lol

Hell, they are already killing themselves:

And your purpose in life is?

you come with your girls with guns

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Greater contribution then a thousand posts about asian Moscovite chekist gangsters defiling the honor of the Nordic Ukrainians...

[snapper]

Russia.

No what you call "Russia" is essentially the last Empire based on the old Principality of Muscovy. I am not urging the Promethian solution (splitting it up into it's original nations) unless those ancient nations wish to be independent - a bit like the Scottish independence vote. I would have no problem if Crimea had voted freely and fairly under Ukrainian law to become independent and then join the "Russian Federation". However it was not a legal referendum nor free and fair thanks to Muscovite 'little green men'. At the same time if the right of say Crimea to secede from Ukraine is admitted the same rights must be admitted to those constituent parts of the "Russian Federation" that wish to secede from Moscow's rule. Nor do I consider it accurate to refer to Muscovy as Rus since it was never a part of old Rus as was Novgorod and Kyiv. Just because you rule over a old territory and it's inhabitants does not give you the right to claim it's identity or history; the British remained British in India and it would be insane to claim that Buddha was an Englishman.

You can hate ethnic Russians (which you seem to) until you turn blue and suffocate yourself but it won't transform the Ukraine into some "Western" nation.

Please stop the drama!!! I do not "hate" them... In fact I have much in common with many Muscovites (including my cousins) who like Ukraine are the victims of their criminal and Checkist regime.

Were these alleged Russian Generals also selling Donald's sex tapes and divulging Trump's dealings with Putin?

No the one I met briefly was doing recon under the cover escorting OSCE observers so we were sent to inform him - quite politely - to request him to stay behind his lines in future as his actions were regarded as beligerent.

Changed up from "mafia muscovite" I see.

Putin has been mixed up with crime since Tambovskaya in St Petersburg when he was deputy Mayor.

[snapper]

Look... I don't mean to get all nasty here. But I don't like being called things, like "propagandist". I simply have my point of view, and had presented it here, respectfully. You came in and started to DISrespect me. I will not simply take that, from anyone.

My friend when you assert that there are no Muscovite troops in Ukraine - that it is all "taxi drivers and miners" (as Putin said) who just fell over T-90s and Buks in some corner shop - contrary to all the evidence of over three years - remember Putin admitted there were Muscovite troops in Crimea? Or perhaps you can explain why Putin was announcing a 'corridor' from Ilovaisk? What were Igor Girkhin and Borodai doing in Ukraine - Arseny Pavlov or hundreds of Buryats? When you deny truths that many of us have followed here in this forum and in our everyday lives... it is you who opens yourself to the charge of being a 'propagandist'. May I ask when the last time you visited Donbass was?

[The_One]

There certainly are regular Russian troops in Donbass. They are easy enough to spot and recognize, don't even hide themselves much anymore, openly wear their uniforms and gear, though, without patches





I think lots of them took part in Ilovaisk (Airborne mostly); stormed, finally, Donetsk Airport, after the local militias couldn't take it for too long; and participated heavily in Debaltsevo also.

But mostly, they are just 'advisers' and such, kind of like US Rangers and whatnot in Syria ;)

Seriously, what's the difference, explain to me, US backing rebels in Syria, or Russia in Ukraine? It's not that Russia are good guys. America is just no better.

As go why Romania invaded Crimea back then... To be fair, you guys did have little choice. The Germans made you go along. I get that. :)

And the whole Molotov-Ribbentrop plan that earlier divided Europe between Stalin and Hitler and saw Romania lose Bessarabia. Probably your people wanted revenge for that too.

[troung]

But mostly, they are just 'advisers' and such, kind of like US Rangers and whatnot in Syria

Operating in multiple battalion sized tactical groups, with armor and artillery....
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No what you call "Russia" is essentially the last Empire based on the old Principality of Muscovy. I am not urging the Promethian solution (splitting it up into it's original nations) unless those ancient nations wish to be independent - a bit like the Scottish independence vote. I would have no problem if Crimea had voted freely and fairly under Ukrainian law to become independent and then join the "Russian Federation". However it was not a legal referendum nor free and fair thanks to Muscovite 'little green men'. At the same time if the right of say Crimea to secede from Ukraine is admitted the same rights must be admitted to those constituent parts of the "Russian Federation" that wish to secede from Moscow's rule. Nor do I consider it accurate to refer to Muscovy as Rus since it was never a part of old Rus as was Novgorod and Kyiv. Just because you rule over a old territory and it's inhabitants does not give you the right to claim it's identity or history; the British remained British in India and it would be insane to claim that Buddha was an Englishman.

The Name: The Russia Federation or simply Russia. The fact you hate said nation and ethnic Russians doesn't change the name.

Buddha: stupid analogy.

No the one I met briefly was doing recon under the cover escorting OSCE observers so we were sent to inform him - quite politely - to request him to stay behind his lines in future as his actions were regarded as beligerent.

BS or as my President likes to call it "Fake News."

Putin has been mixed up with crime since Tambovskaya in St Petersburg when he was deputy Mayor.

Corrupt Kievan Fascist Gangsters is just as cheesy.

Please stop the drama!!! I do not "hate" them... In fact I have much in common with many Muscovites (including my cousins) who like Ukraine are the victims of their criminal and Checkist regime.

Dug up the old Asiatic horde crap, "they are not really Russians", "we are Westerners they are of the East"; come on grow a pair and admit that you hate them as a people. To do less is cowardly.

=====
Still awaiting those Polish tapes.

[The_One]

Putin has been mixed up with crime since Tambovskaya in St Petersburg when he was deputy Mayor.

He wasn't a "deputy Mayor".

He worked very closely with and for Governor Sobchak

Not sure in what exact capacity.

Most believe, myself included, that, yes, he was a liaison of sorts, between the Governor and the mafia, especially the Tambov guys, the biggest and most powerful outfit there. He reportedly collected kickbacks and commissions from every illegal deal in town, drugs, prostitutes, gambling, whatever. Got quite rich off it all, like, he was a multi-millionaire, at least, by the time went to Moscow.

It's also where he met Viktor Zolotov, fellow ex-KGB agent, working as a bodyguard for Sobchak back then


He would later be head of Putin's personal security, as President, his most trusted man


Now, he commands the new Russian National Guard (Rosgvardia)

And his daughter, Darya, enjoys herself in London and other fancy places

lol

[The_One]

Operating in multiple battalion sized tactical groups, with armor and artillery....

The Americans have artillery and missiles in Syria too.

[snapper]

There certainly are regular Russian troops in Donbass. They are easy enough to spot and recognize, don't even hide themselves much anymore, openly wear their uniforms and gear, though, without patches

Well this is awkward since Moscow still denies it.

I think lots of them took part in Ilovaisk (Airborne mostly); stormed, finally, Donetsk Airport, after the local militias couldn't take it for too long; and participated heavily in Debaltsevo also.

Yep the paratroopers were buried secretely in Pskov - people - even a local counseller who tried to go near the graves were beaten up. We have seen the mobile crematoria and Cargo 200 deliveries back to Muscovy. The OSCE has recorded them too.

But mostly, they are just 'advisers' and such, kind of like US Rangers and whatnot in Syria ;) Seriously, what's the difference, explain to me, US backing rebels in Syria, or Russia in Ukraine? It's not that Russia are good guys. America is just no better.

Ahh the "whataboutism argument" lol... Look there was no reason for the Muscovite grab of Crimea other than Yanukovych fleeing. So what if your neighbour wishes reform and it's President flees? Reform in Ukraine increases wealth and makes it able to buy more good from Muscovy... In Syria much the same - but worse. Assad is a war criminal. There are many UN motions against his use of force and chemical weapons against his own people. All the UN resolutions regarding Ukraine condemn the illegal action in Crimea and Donbass. The truth may be as I said - Putin fears what he calls 'colour revolutions'; the Orange Revolution and the so called 'Revolution of Dignity' in Ukraine as well as the 'Arab Spring' revolutions of which Syria started as a continuation of. Because if others can be free and reform so can his population - and that is a threat to him and his criminal gang who would doubtless end a la Nicholas ll and his family or worse. In a way it is like a 'Dictators Club' Putin is trying to create and support - I notice they opened a shipping route recently to North Korea.

If the Muscovite troops in Ukraine are purely 'advisors' what is the justification? Ukraine is not murdering Jews or Poles or any other minority - are we all 'fascists' (like Navalny apparently!)? The far right gets far less of the vote in Ukraine than it does in say France for the Front National which Moscow bankrolls... There is only so much hypocrisy anyone can get away with before you just look ridiculous and nobody believes a word you say. If these are advisors only why the secret burials, the mobile crematoria and the Cargo 200? Your account does not add up. Who was Girkhin and the others working for? On holiday? Be serious. Why does Surkov visit and have so many conversations with the leaders of so called 'Peoples Republiks'? It is all very well to admit that Muscovite troops in Ukraine and I respect your doing so you do not seek to justify it in itself apart from this 'whataboutism' relating to entirely different situation in another country.

The Name: The Russia Federation or simply Russia. The fact you hate said nation and ethnic Russians doesn't change the name.

Try reading; I have nothing against "ethnic Russians" as you call them. My cousin from Moscow who lives with my family is my cousin and not my enemy.

BS or as my President likes to call it "Fake News."

Gen Alexander Lentsov; look him up.

Corrupt Kievan Fascist Gangsters is just as cheesy.

Certainly but we aim to get rid of them; in Muscovy they are nationalised.

Still awaiting those Polish tapes.

Not done by Poles or in Polish. Some of it is coming out now regarding your election.

[troung]

Gen Alexander Lentsov; look him up.

Your dealings with him fall under the "fake news" variety.

Try reading; I have nothing against "ethnic Russians" as you call them. My cousin from Moscow who lives with my family is my cousin and not my enemy.

Some of my closest friends are "Asiatic Mongol Muscovite gangster hordes who try to steal from our true Rus history"....

Certainly but we aim to get rid of them; in Muscovy they are nationalised.

The Ukraine is evidently more corrupt than Russia, winning the race to the bottom.

Not done by Poles or in Polish. Some of it is coming out now regarding your election.

Tapes: You touted that they were being bid on in Poland.
Russia-Trump: The wheels are coming off that story.

====
One of he worst propagandists I have had the pleasure of dealing with.

[snapper]

Doesn't matter what facts some are told.... the earth is round would be 'fake news' to you since you appear to adore every tinpot crook dictator who rears his head from the gutter and take his word for anything.

Lentsov is no longer in Ukraine, One of my cousins is living with my family and comes from Moscow - she is not 'asiatic', the tapes came from Muscovy. One of the biggest Putin butt kissers I have had the misfortune of conversing with - after your 'make Muscovy great again' idiot President - whom thankfully I do not have to deal with.

[troung]

The Americans have artillery and missiles in Syria too.

Come on, that's a low bar.

=====

Lentsov is no longer in Ukraine,

And you two never met.

One of my cousins is living with my family and comes from Moscow - she is not 'asiatic',

"Some of my best friends are black"

the tapes came from Muscovy.

Don't seem to be any tapes (despite your claims of a bidding war in Warsaw), more of that "fake news" we are bombarded with.

One of the biggest Putin butt kissers I have had the misfortune of conversing with -

Not a fan of him or his policies, but you are a miserable propagandist.

after your 'make Muscovy great again' idiot President - whom thankfully I do not have to deal with.

The leader of the free world.

Doesn't matter what facts some are told.... the earth is round would be 'fake news' to you since you appear to adore every tinpot crook dictator who rears his head from the gutter and take his word for anything.

I just find your conspiracy theories and propaganda more irritating.

[JAD_333]

Ok, everyone. Let's play nice here.

Also, please attribute quotes to their owners when responding to them, and articles to their sources.


The-One: Too many photos, proving not much and too many milk-toasty negative comments on Putin. You may not be a working propagandist for Putin, but you certainly have the same MO as ones who have been here before you.