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Thread: Ukraine Elections and Political Developments

  1. #406
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    So 'Ze', our comedian President, finally has a time and place for a 'Normandy Format' meeting with Putin to doubtless emerge with a 'Peace in our time' surrender of the occupied territories: Paris on December 9th. Muscovy made further talks dependent on Ukrainian acceptance of the so called 'Steinmeir Formula' and now that withdrawals have occurred (unilaterally on the Ukrainian side - the Muscovites now say they will withdraw after the Paris meeting) we are ready to surrender totally it seems - or at least Zelensky and his patron Kolomoisky. Indeed the 'oligarch' Kolomoisky's, on who's TV channel the Comedian in Chief was broadcast and who has been photographed in the President's office, view has shifted 180 degrees since 2014 when he was Mayor of Dnipro and was financing militias;

    “Give it five, 10 years, and the blood will be forgotten,” Mr. Kolomoisky said. “I showed in 2014 that I don’t want to be with Russia,” he added. “I’m describing, objectively, what I’m seeing and where things are heading.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/w...ky-russia.html

    How strange that the Comedian's 'desire for peace' seems so aligned with the changed view of the 'oligarch'... almost uncanny timing.

    One might also ask 'why Paris' but bearing in mind Macron's recent attempts to kiss Putin's rear end "Welcome them back into Europe" etc it does not surprise me that Macron was chosen to host the surrender.

    We have elected at best a Chamberlain it seems when we needed a Churchill. It is beyond all reason and any honour - for there is not one single shred of evidence that can lead anyone that Putin and his mangy gang of thieving and mass murdering cohorts will keep any deal that is agreed - even one so pathetically weak as Zelensky has proposed. Autonomy for the occupied Donbass will doubtless come with a veto on foreign policy dictated through the so called 'Peoples Republiks' by Moscow. It seems our fellow citizens - Tatar and Ukrainian - in Crimea will then just be forgotten about - as if the Government of Ukraine did not have any duty to them. I wonder what Zelensky's price was? President for life or just payments into Swiss account. Or is he just so seriously stupid to commit the same errors of Chamberlain and Viscount Halifax? You cannot appease a bear when it has your leg in it's mouth.

    This war is I fear just the start, or perhaps we should now recognise Chechnya and Georgia as the origins of this renewed Mafiosi Kremlin desire for power. It's tentacles of corruption, deceit, it's filthy stolen money, reach deep into the heart of every free nation in Europe and across the Atlantic. It is a war the like of which none have seen before; it aims to strike us from within and turn friend against friend with it's lies and pays it's 'useful idiots' well as Mr Manafort proved. Long may he rot in jail. If the surrender of the occupied Donbass occurs in December as I expect I predict Belarus will be next. If Putin can claim he has made a new Union state - having added Belarus - he will say he can run for President again.

    For myself I will fight wherever and however I may where those who desire liberty and truth exist in Europe or with any person or nation that fights against the new evil of the mass murdering kleptocratic regime that Putin leads in Moscow. They are not that strong and I have total confidence of our eventual victory. But I would rather die choking in my own blood than sign any false 'peace' - for there can be none until Ukrainian land is free. "Success is never final, failure never fatal. You just need courage to go on." (Churchill)

  2. #407
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    Ahead of the coming 'Normandy Format' on the Minsk Process the so called 'Donestk Peoples Republik' have allegedly passed a vote (2 even the Muscovite reports say, which seems a little bit of a waste of time to make things look 'democratic') that they lay claim to the whole of the Donestsk Oblast (the equivalent of a 'County' in England) of which the Muscovites and their proxies currently occupy roughly a third. This would mean surrendering to them Sloviansk and Kramatorsk again for example and a great deal more strategic avenues for attacks on Kharkiv and the lower Dnipro cities. This comes a few days after Lavrov (the Muscovite Foreign Minister) said that the Ukrainian Government must enter into talks with the so called 'Republiks'.

    Nor have they retired or stopped firing at Ukrainian troops from the areas where the Comedian forced our forces to withdraw. Nor apparently are other conditions met;

    "Meanwhile, the 'DPR'/'LPR' have not let the International Committee of the Red Cross have access to [Ukrainian] detainees; the OSCE SMM has not been provided with unhindered access to the territory of Donbas that is not controlled by Ukraine, including the Russian-Ukrainian border: No conditions for the Zolote checkpoint have been created," she said on Facebook on November 27. Read also Special envoy Sajdik on Minsk talks: Recent developments inspire certain optimism According to her, the issue of freeing the detainees remains particularly pressing.

    https://www.unian.info/war/10771487-...s-meeting.html

    Interesting that this 'demand' of the so called 'DPR' is voiced at; https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4178217 of which this the gist;

    The parliament of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) adopted a law establishing the borders of the republic within the Donetsk region of Ukraine as of 2014. As the Donetsk news agency reported, the meeting was attended by 76 deputies who unanimously supported the document in two readings.

    “In this law, those people who live in the territory temporarily controlled by Ukraine are not forgotten. Therefore, the border was defined on the territory of the Donetsk region, which was for the period of 2014, ”said the chairman of the People’s Council of the Republic Vladimir Bidevka.
    So Zelensky is going to Paris, where Macron's 180 degree turnabout on Muscovy, who now 'should be welcomed back into Europe' and 'Not an enemy' (along with 'NATO is brain dead') is a total 180 degree reverse of his former self and raises many questions - even among his former French advisors; and Germany (intent on selling out 'Europe' for North Stream 2) and zero accomplished in return except more dead Ukrainian soldiers. Oh a few hostages exchanged for a legitimate war criminals and Ukrainian national! We also got back the two patrol boats and the tug - which apparently had been vandalised to the point where toilets were removed. This incidentally prompted a demonstration outside the Muscovite Embassy were people took toilets to donate to their 'fraternal brothers'.

  3. #408
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    Following the Serbian expulsion of Georgiy Kleban (the Deputy Military Attache in Belgrade), a GRU agent caught on film handing over a bag of cash to a Serbian Military Officer recently (video below) Germany yesterday expelled (personna no gratia) two Muscovite 'diplomats' yesterday.

    The Serbian video:




    The German assassination (for sadly it was successful) of Zelimkhan Khangoshvili actually occurred before the Belgrade 'businessmen meeting' back in August 23rd. First of all who was Khangoshvili and who would want to shoot him using a Glock 26 silencer anyway? Well he was born in Georgia but of Chechen parentage. During the Chechen wars he fought as a Commander for Republik of Iskeria (as the free Chechen state called itself briefly). Later he held a Military command in Georgian army during the South Ossetia war. After that he survived several assassination attempts in Georgia before fleeing with his family to Germany after the election of billionaire Bidzina Ivanishvili, who had made all his money in Muscovy with a 'Putin license' so to speak as Prime Minister in 2012(? I think). Now who could want Zelimkhan demised? The wonder is that the Germans did not draw the obvious conclusions but rebuked the dead man as a terrorist group called "Caucasian Emirates" [sic] when faced with real terrorism on their own doorstep. One guy was even arrested - a Muscovite who went by the passport name of Vadim Sokolov. This naturally is not his true name which is Vadim Nikolaevich Krasikov.


    It has taken the Germans over 3 months to recognise what should have been apparent from the outset.

    Bellingcat ran a full 'diagnostic' on this 'Vadim Sokolov' who according to them is responsible for other deaths https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...cow-to-berlin/

    Just today in Surrey, England Dmitry Obretetsky (and his dog apparently, which he was walking at the time) were killed after being hit by a car - which did not stop. Doubtless "Police are conducting inquiries" as usual. It is said that - merely a rumour I heard - that Dmitry had refused the loan of his yacht (it is seemingly obligatory to have a yacht as a Muscovite billionaire) to Medvedev - who's Wife owns a yacht anyway. Is that a reason to kill a man? The problem is once you become paranoid - and even bloggers today can be labelled "Foreign Agents" and it is offence to insult the Government or Putin - then everyone is 'the enemy' outside and within. This is how Stalin's "Terror" started.

    It is has been evident for some time there is nothing less than a Muscovite assassination sqad roaming Europe. One of the would be Skripal murderers had previously been in Bulgaria (presumably to visit another famous Cathedral) when some arms trader called Emilian Gebrev died of poisoning (see https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/...lingcat-a68306 and other reporting). This unit Bellingcat and others now name "Unit 29155". Today the French daily 'Le Monde' revealed/alleged that members of this unit regularly checked into a sub base in the French region of Haute Savoie (near the Italian and Swiss borders); https://www.scmp.com/news/world/euro...ar-base-secret

    There are many questions that arise from this - not least why the search for this assassination unit started only post Skripal? I mean there were quite a few before and after Sasha Litvinenko. Granted that his assassins did not act as 'illegals' but there was surely cause for investigation long ago. Why has still taken the German authorities 3 months to recognise another act of Muscovite state authorised terrorism on their sovereign territory? No German leader has said a word as far as I know. Why not? Most importantly from where I sit what, if any, effect is this likely to have on the German position in next weeks 'Normandy Format' talks regarding the war in Ukraine?

    It must be obvious to all now that Muscovy under this tyrannical Chekist Mafia state run by Putin is a state sponsor of assassination (including among it's own people) and they should duly be put on 'terrorist organisation' list and all sanctions applied according to their right status.
    Last edited by snapper; 05 Dec 19, at 20:02.

  4. #409
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    My short takeaway from the Paris 'Normandy Format' meeting: Minsk 'agreements' are rubbish (but we have know that for since the day they were signed). A ceasefire is to be called - like the previous 21 other 'ceasefires' doubtless. Full all for all prisoner exchange by the New Year; I will make an edible hat and bet on having to eat it.

    By and large I think our Clown President did far better than I expected.

  5. #410
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    Update: Predictably there has been NO ceasefire - who'd have guessed? The prisoner exchange is reportedly in trouble because some of the Muscovites have no desire to be returned - they do not fancy their 'welcome' chez Putin.

    Muscovy is pressuring Lukashenka on the 'Union State'; Luka, who really does not get on with Putin, was summoned to Sochi recently for talks with Volya P recently and while there massive demonstrations were held in Minsk in support of Belorussian independence - with the consent evidently of the authorities. One should not forget that in 2014 Lukasheka said Crimea was Ukrainian and for obvious reasons - for if it can be changed to Muscovite within 2 weeks then what precedent does that set for his own personal fiefdom? This desire to maintain an independent Belarus naturally receives support from Kyiv and Warsawa (where apparently they thought Luka would go belly up) as well as the Baltic nations - who would be strategically lost to military support in the event of a Muscovite 'absorption' of Belarus as well as putting Ukraine in further danger and threatening Poland - who Putin has accused of starting WW2 recently in reply to a European Parliament vote that condemned the Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact as one of the causes of that war. In the end the Lukashenka 'shuffle' between east and west must end and with the ever increasing pressure from Moscow - for reasons I shall explain in a minute - it is likely to come sooner rather than later. It would be wise for the EU nations and US, Canada to give Belarus guarantees to sustain it's independence if force is used - which it will be if guarantees of help are not given.

    The reason why Putin wants this 'new Union State' is simple: In 2024 he will finish his second consecutive term as Kappo de tutti Kappi and without changing the constitution he cannot stand again for the next election cycle. But IF it is a 'new Union State' (having absorbed Belarus) then in theory he could stand for the first time for President of the 'new state'. Thus something has to give from his point of view - and that is Lukashenka. I am no Lukashenka fan - far from it, he is despicable in my view and I am sure a free Belarusian people would have justice done to him; but I am a fan of not letting Belarus fall entirely to the enemy of the free world.

  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    By and large I think our Clown President did far better than I expected.
    In Ukraine this is actually true : D

    This should be a fun listen

    What the Ukraine Scandal Looks Like ... From Ukraine | NPR | Dec 23 2019
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Dec 19, at 21:59.

  7. #412
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    Christmas controversies and arguments.

    In the run up to Christmas (12 December) some arrests were made in relation to the murder of Pavel Sheremet, who died in a car bomb in Kyiv spring 2016 (I forget which month); the case was labelled as 'murder' for obvious reasons though he was in his Girlfriend's car. Sheremet was originally a Belorusian but fell foul of Lukashenka for his reporting way back in the late 1990s and got put in prison there. The then Muscovite Government protested and in due course he was released and migrated to Muscovy where he got a passport. He became a Nemtsov pal in Muscovy and criticised Putin and Poroshenko but fled Muscovy in 2015 to Kyiv until someone caught up with him. So who did they arrest for this crime? Five Ukrainian people who had served in the war (Vladyslav Hryshchenko, a war veteran; Inna Hryshchenko, his wife and a war veteran; Yulia Kuzmenko, a children’s surgeon who has been helping the army; Andriy Antonenko, a military officer and musician; and Yana Dugar, a servicewoman).

    This to some, myself included, seems suspect to say the least. Doubtless Sheremet had made important and powerful enemies in his brave reporting but what reason would this assorted bunch of Ukrainian patriots who had all seen the front have for murdering him - unless they were acting on behalf of one some greater foe he had made? In a video of the car a man and Lady are seen messing about under the car - allegedly planting the bomb but they cannot be identified. The car they drove off in was registered to a person in Odessa - who worked for the Ministry of the Interior (all this is public domain) so wtf?

    No matter what the common view is that the person who ordered the hit must be found and the 'defenders of Ukraine' either receive a slap on the hand - if involved at all (which some do not believe) or be let go. Those who have defended the homeland are naturally held in the highest regard here but for myself if these people are conclusively proved to had a part in this murder the law must have it's course; a hero cannot be forgiven for later crimes unless it be for psychological reasons.



    Then we had a second 'prisoner swap' last weekend; 76 of ours for 124 not entirely Muscovites. Many of the people released by Ukraine were Muscovite passport holders that were caught or surrendered in Donbass. How they got there or what they were doing is presumably swept under the carpet... However what annoyed alot of people (and me) is that is was allegedly "integral" to the deal that eight people in particular be given to Muscovy (or basically the Putin Mafia), five former Berkut officers who were awaiting trial for the Maidan murders and 3 others arrested and awaiting trial for a bomb attack in Kharkiv in 2015; all Ukrainian citizens.

    The first question - which I had before with the MH17 Ukrainian witness we 'swapped' - is how can we swap traitors for innocent hostages? This is giving up our integrity; the alleged traitors, if they are convicted as such, should surely face the normal legal process and if found innocent be released or serve their time as the court decides. While I am sure their families welcome back the Ukrainian hostages - and it makes us all feel good - are we not trying to prove that the rule of law exists here? Under what legal procedure were these people released from prison? They did not receive a Presidential pardon so who ordered it and on what legal basis? These questions have prompted a court case to discover the answers.

    Secondly on the same subject as these eight people who it were it seems at least prima facie illegaly released from prison, why does Moscow have such an interest in them if their alleged crimes were nothing to do with Moscow, which denies any part in the war? Of course the true answers from Moscow will never be known but this is a partial admition of guilt for these crimes that they orchestrated in Ukraine.


    The last talking point in recent Ukrainian domestic affairs concerns the Clown President's New Years message to country. A very slick piece with nice background music building etc which you find here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo7JDweEAYs&t=637s

    Translated to English it means;

    "Dear Ukrainians. Usually, in the New Year's greetings, presidents tell us about GDP growth, lower inflation, 'implementation', 'diversification', and other obscure terms. In general, they convince us that we've actually started living better, it's just that we haven't noticed this yet, so very often we just put our TVs on mute during the president's address and wait until he's done with his fairytale to finally move on to champagne, sandwiches with sprats, and a traditional New Year's salad.

    Tonight it's going to be different. Tonight everyone will honestly answer themselves an important question: who am I? A president of Ukraine, a successful lawyer, an ordinary housewife, a philosophy department student from Kyiv Mohyla Academy, or an agronomist from Cherkasy region? Who am I? A former photographer protecting the country in the East? An ex- physicist now washing dishes in Italy? A former chemist building a skyscraper in Novosibirsk [in Russia]? A Donetsk doctor who moved and started his own practice? Or a teacher from Luhansk who moved, worked as a taxi driver for a couple of years, and then went back? Who am I? The one who has lived abroad for ten years, loving Ukraine on the Internet? The one who lost everything in Crimea and started everything from scratch in Kharkiv? An ІТ guy seeking to leave the country? Or a prisoner who had dreamed of returning home?

    Who am I? An Ivano-Frankivsk native defending their native language? A native of Gurzuf [in Crimea]who protects their native language? A resident of Berehove [in Zakarpattia] who protects their native language? Or a resident of Kramatorsk who speaks their native language? The one who mastered Ukrainian? Because it’s normal to know the state language. The one who doesn't want to learn it? Who am I? The one who pays taxes? The one who cuts other cars on the road? A dog keeper? Red? Muslim? Hearing-impaired? Hating olives? Liberal? Excelling student? Didn't watch Game of Thrones? Sanguine? Vegan? Capricorn? Not offering a seat to anyone on subway? Blood donor? Turned down plastic? It's each of them. These are all Ukrainians. This is the way they are. We're not perfect, we're no saints. That's because we're only human. We're human beings. We have our flaws and quirks. But our passports don't say whether we're the right kind of Ukrainians or a wrong one. There's no entry there, saying "patriot", "Maloros" [a derogatory term used to describe a Ukrainian native with no national identity], "vatnik" [a derogatory term for a pro-Russian citizen] or "Banderite" [a derogatory term for a Ukrainian nationalist]. It says: "Citizen of Ukraine", who has rights and obligations. We are all very different.

    So who are we? Is it 73% who chose the president or 25% who can't stand him? Is it those who didn't go to the polls? Is it those who celebrate Christmas on December 25 or those who do so on January 7? Is it those who have known each other for ages or those who only met in 2014? Is it those who made the world's largest aircraft or those who fail to buckle up in their cars? Do we read Zhadan or listen to Maruv? Do we watch [a Soviet movie] "Irony of Fate" or "Home Alone"? Do we root for Dynamo or Shakhtar? Or do we root together for Lomachenko and Usyk? Is it those who celebrate March 8 or, on the contrary, those who see it as a relic of the Soviet times? Do we go to church on Sunday or do nothing on Saturday? We are the ones who say: "Ya tebe kohayu " ["I love you" in Ukrainian] or "Ya tebia liubliu." ["I love you" in Russian]. This is all us.

    So, as different as we are, how are we supposed to live together? Should we fence off? Should we put up a huge fence? Who convinced us that our differences matter? What if it's not so? Just think about it: is there really little that unites us? We are equally proud of the great Ukrainians. Would we no longer respect them if we knew whom Shevchenko or Lesia Ukrainka voted for in the elections? If Skovoroda or Khmelnytsky had different views on NATO? Would it be important to us, which church Kadeniuk and Lobanovsky would go to or what would Antonov or Korolyov think about customs clearance of imported cars, or what's Stupka and Bykov's attitude toward the "Normandy format"? We value them for something else, because we all really value something else.

    We were equally happy when our [football] team made it to Euro. We laugh the same way when we drive on a neatly-paved road. We rejoice equally when our first child is born, no matter if it's a boy or a girl. We are happy when we are in love – both in Sloviansk [in eastern Ukraine] and in Drohobych [in western Ukraine]. And crosses on the graves of our soldiers, be it in Ternopil or Kryvyi Rih, don't compete in patriotism. And when our sailors and captives came back home, we cried with happiness – Ukrainian speakers and Russian speakers, ordinary housewives and successful lawyers, as well as the president of Ukraine.

    There are many episodes in our history that unite us. And we learned to be a united country occasionally. This year, we need to be a united country every day. This must become our national idea: to learn to live together with respect, for the future of your country. After all, we see it the same way – a successful and prosperous country where there is no war, a country that has brought back its people and its territories. Where the name of the street doesn't matter because it is lit and paved. Where it makes no difference, at which monument you're waiting for the girl you love. If we see our future in the same way, it should unite us.

    Dear Ukrainians, in the new 2020, I wish all of us to respect each other, to be healthy, prosperous, and to have many reasons to smile. I wish everyone to have a good rest, sleep, not overeat, and, of course, be slightly and pleasantly dizzy in the morning. May we all have peace! Let's remember that loving Ukraine means loving all Ukrainians, no matter in what corner of our country they were born."
    So the criticism of this 'message' is that is from the mundane (why no Ukrainian flag in the picture?) to what he did not speak about - notably the soldiers at the front or any mention of those living under occupation or even the war. But more importantly his seeming belittling of the national identity at a time when it clearly matters in his ending words "Where the name of the street doesn't matter because it's lit and paved. Where it makes no difference at which moment you are waiting for the girl you love." Well this is fundamentally misguided in a war in which Moscow says claims the Ukrainian history and so ownership of Ukraine as 'the same people', where they claim the right to defend 'Russian speakers' almost anywhere with armed force identity is fundamental. I know native Muscovite speakers who refuse to speak it any longer and myself spoke better Muscovite than Ukrainian in 2013 but now can speak, read and write Ukrainian fairly fluently. Does he not recall the mass demolition of the Lenin statues? What if I built a statue of Stalin to celebrate the Holodomor? Would it matter? Damn right it would because symbols have meaning, Ukraine is at war (which he forgot in his neo Cartesian advert), that the sons, fathers, daughters, even mothers have died for their homeland and their sacrifice for our liberty - for all of Europe's liberty - demand the honour and respect of us all rather some symbol of nothing or of the enemy. This notion that names and symbols do not matter is just wrong.


    A joke I heard about this suggests that when 'Ze' dies we mark his gravestone "Some guy".

  8. #413
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    We understand that Medvedev's entire Muscovite 'Government' has resigned following Putin's earlier 'State of the Union' address (see; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JHi4LKfT_A).

    This follows recent reports that Kadyrov has recently 'temporarily' been 'incapacitated' and so appointed one of his goons to take charge; https://www.rferl.org/a/chechen-lead.../30379057.html

    Something is going on but only time will tell what.
    Last edited by snapper; 15 Jan 20, at 16:26.

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