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Thread: Ukraine Elections and Political Developments

  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I think it would be a mistake to assume that all or even most who voted for Yulia in the first round will vote for Poroshenko in the second. Boyko was a Moscow candidate from the start and to promote himself and another traitor and oligarch Medvedchuk went to Moscow together and "negotiated a great gas deal" for Ukraine - which would be operable if Boyko won. Turned out their "great gas deal" was more expensive per cubic meter than the deals Naftogaz (the Ukrainian state owned gas supplier) has now with European allies. Kind of ended of them and both are under investigation for various criminal offences.

    Since then the second round has descended into a farce regarding drug testing of all things. People were asking for a debate between the two candidates left so the comedian put out a video;



    So drug tests were done - Poroshenko turned up on time at a WADA testing facility and Zelinsky turned up late at a private clinic where apparently he only had a blood test (as opposed to blood, urine and hair test Poroshenko undertook).

    In the meantime Zelinsky had called for Yulia Tymoshenko to be the 'chair' of the debate and Poroshenko released a similar glossy video which I cannot find an English translation to go with it but you can find here; https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-zele.../29861296.html

    Yesterday the Mayor of Kyiv, the former boxer Vitali Klitschko, challenged both candidates to turn up at the Olympic Stadium together for a further round of drug tests. Poroshenko turned up and Zelensky did not.

    We had the opportunity to meet Zelensky recently (my Husband and I) and while I think he may be pleasant enough company at dinner I would say he is useless and clueless on policy and to some extent reality. I shall be voting for Poroshenko as a devil we know rather than a clown we don't.
    Thanks for your explanation.

  2. #377
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    So yesterday the long awaited 'debate' between Poroshenko and Zelensky took place in the Olympic Stadium. This after last Friday Zelensky failed to turn up for a debate and has spent most of last week posting instagram/facebook videos of 'Ze' doing pressups and pullups etc... The 'debate' itself turned into more of a slagging match than any debate about the issues facing the country and how best to deal with them. You can see it in English on RT here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUuAMi2jls

    Turns out over 2m Muscovites watched this show and that I think is a victory in itself in a country used to Putin's same boring monologue for nearly 20yrs. The very fact that over 2m Muscovites can see some form of democracy actually happening in a neighbouring nation which has defied Putin and his criminal gang for five years must cause fear in the hearts of the criminal Cheka.

  3. #378
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    Meanwhile the General Staff have issued what appears to be a public rebuke of Zelensky who referred to the enemy in occupied Donbass as "rebels";


    Генеральний штаб ЗСУ
    ‏Verified account @GeneralStaffUA
    16h16 hours ago

    «We do not have «rebels». We have Russian aggression» - reminder of the President of Ukraine – Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The Armed Forces of Ukraine will not forget and will not forgive about that. Never!!!

  4. #379
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    Zelensky wins with 72.7% of the vote. Poroshenko has conceded but says he will not leave politics and contribute to opposition.
    Last edited by snapper; 21 Apr 19, at 19:31.

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  6. #381
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    Five years of war between Ukrainian troops and Russian-backed forces have killed 13,000 people despite a notional ceasefire signed in 2015.

    Russia’s move is an early test for the Ukrainian president-elect Volodymyr Zelenskiy, who won a landslide victory in Sunday’s presidential election and has pledged to find a peaceful solution to the conflict.

    Zelenskiy said Putin’s action showed Russia was waging war in Ukraine and brought the two sides no closer to peace. He called for the international community to threaten Russia with more sanctions. Outgoing President Petro Poroshenko said Russia might try to annex the Donbass region. The United States called the Putin’s action “absurd and destabilizing”.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1S01LU

    Firstly this is a clear violation of Ukrainian law in which an individual can legally hold one passport (despite some well known crooks, such as Gennadiy Trukhanov the Mayor of Odessa, being shown to also to have Muscovite passport in the Panama Papers). As it is a clear attempt to breach Ukrainian law it is also contrary to the spirit if not the wording of the Minsk agreements.

    Personally I do not have problem with them if they want to go live in the Great Despotism; you are free to leave our territory if you wish but not stay on it and break the law.

  7. #382
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    The Verkhovna Rada (meaning supreme assembly) yesterday passed a Ukrainian language law:




    Not sure I like this law personally. Fines for incorrect use? Are you kidding? Is it "colour" or "color" in 'correct English'? What if make a spelling mistake, I mean Trump has trouble with English; "covfefe" and "council" for "counsel". Nor do I want the regional and minority languages to die out; my Husband's native language is Lemko (or Lemkowie as it is in Polish) though he can speak Ukrainian and some Romanian. Hutsuls have their own language too which is understandable but different. I am more fluent in Moscovite than Ukrainian myself; most of the troops use Muscovite, are we going to fine them for not using Ukrainian or using it incorrectly?

    I understand why of course; the Muscovite claim the Ukrainian language is a 'dialect' though historically it can be proved to be derived from the older Eastern Slavic language whereas Muscovite language has Bulgarian influences (I think the 'Saint' or priest at least who did their alphabet was a Bulgar). Of course at times the use of the Ukrainian language (and Lemko etc) were banned as well so it is an understandable reaction but it seems ill thought out to me. I do not care if a persons native tongue is Tatar, Polish, Lemko, Romanian, Hungarian, Yiddish or anything else. I do not speak Yiddish or Hungarian and can just about understand Romanian only from it's Latin roots but if they can make themselves understood I do not see why it matters. I have spoken to Georgians in Georgia using French before - I do not speak Georgian but I made myself understood because she understood some French.

    Nor indeed is any language uniform. Look at the different forms of English spoken in the relatively small space of Britain. In south east Poland they have a different word for potatoes that if you use it in Warsawa nowadays they will look at you as if you are rustic yokel. Speak Lemko to them and they will understand usually and ask what you are doing in Warsawa. So what? I do not care. I just need people to understand my meaning when I say something; the language and correct or incorrect usage of it is irrelevant.

  8. #383
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    Rudy Giuliani ain't welcome in Ukraine.

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    So it seems our Parliament (the Verkhovna Rada) has decided to exert it's independence - to some extent at least. Also they are still all Poroshenko loyalists to some extent whom the idea of the new incoming comedian President does not amuse. So Zelensky has been moaning about his inauguration delay (which will happen on Monday coming 20 May) and would like to dissolve the Parliament and hold fresh Rada elections asap. Obviously this would favour him as he has not had time to mess up and following inauguration all whoop for joy anyway - rally around etc... So to counter these early elections the Rada effected a ploy of dissolving the Rada majority alliance (Peoples Front and Poroshenko Bloc) which by the Constitution means that no new Parliamentary elections can be held for 30 days to let them try to form another majority coalition. However these 30 days carry into the realm of another Constitutional Article that forbids the dissolution of a Parliament/Rada within 6 months of the due elections of a new one - due in October.

    Some argue there is a way around this but I do not see it. So for the first few months at least the incoming President will have to deal with a largely reluctant Parliament.
    Last edited by snapper; 18 May 19, at 23:24.

  10. #385
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    President Zelinsky inaugurated yesterday. His speech:




    Dear Ukrainians! After [my] election win, my 6-year-old son said: "Dad, I saw on TV that Zelenskyy is now the president! Does that mean I'm the president too?" Back then, it sounded like a childish joke. But then, I came to realize that it was actually the truth. Because each and every one of us is the president. Not just the 73% who voted for me, but the entire 100% of Ukrainians. This is not my victory, it's our shared victory. And it's our shared chance that we all bear responsibility for. And just now, it wasn't just me who took the oath. Each one of us placed their hands on top of the Constitution, each one of us took the oath to be loyal to Ukraine. Imagine screaming headlines like: "The President does not pay his taxes," "The President drove on the red light after drinking," "The President steals money in secret – because that's what everybody does." You agree that that would be a shame. And that's what I mean by saying that "each one of us is President."

    From today onward, each one of us has responsibility for the Ukraine that we leave behind for our children. Each one of us – being in their jobs – can do everything in their power for the development of Ukraine. A European country starts with each of us. Yes, we chose a path to Europe. But Europe is not somewhere over there. Europe is right here (points at his head, -ed.). And when Europe is right here, it will be here, too (points at his surrounding, -ed.). It will be in Ukraine. That's our shared dream. But we also have a shared pain. Each one of us has died in the Donbas. And each day, we're losing each one of us. Every one of us is an internally displaced person. All those who lost their homes and all those who opened up their homes to share the pain. And every one of us is a worker abroad. Yes, those who did not find themselves in their home country and went to work abroad. Those who, while fighting poverty, are forced to lose their dignity.

    But we will overcome all of this. Because each one of us is a Ukrainian. We're all Ukrainians. There are no bigger or smaller [Ukrainians], proper or wrong [Ukrainians], we're all Ukrainians. From Uzhhorod to Luhansk. From Chernihiv to Simferopol. In Lviv, Kharkiv, and Donetsk. In Dnipro and Odesa. We're all Ukrainians. And we need to stay united because that's the only way to stay strong.


    Today, I address all the Ukrainians in the world. There's 65 million of us. Don't be so surprised – yes, there are 65 million of us. All those who were brought to life by the Ukrainian land. The Ukrainians in Europe and Asia, in North and South America, in Australia and Africa. I address all the Ukrainians on this planet: we really need you. All those who are prepared to build a new, strong and successful Ukraine – I will happily provide you with a Ukrainian citizenship. You shouldn't be coming "to visit" Ukraine, you should be coming home. We're waiting for you. Don't bring souvenirs from abroad, please bring your knowledge, experience, and mental values [instead.] All of this will help us start a new epoch. The skeptics will say that it's a fantasy and it's impossible. But maybe that is our national idea: to do the impossible by uniting together. In spite of everything.

    Think about the Icelandic national team during the European football championship. When a dentist, a film director, a pilot, a student, and a cleaner fought together and defended their country's dignity. And they managed to do it successfully despite nobody believing in them.

    That is our path. We need to become the Icelandic in football, the Israelis in defending their rightful land, the Japanese in terms of technology, the Swiss in terms of knowing how to co-exist happily with each other despite any differences. Our first task is to end fire in the Donbas (the whole audience in the parliament stands up and applauds after these words, -ed.).

    I've often been asked what I'm prepared to do in order to stop fire. It's a strange question. What are you, the Ukrainians, prepared to lose for the lives of the people close to you, what? I can assure that in order for our heroes to stop dying I am ready to do everything. And I am definitely not afraid to make difficult decisions, not afraid to lose my own popularity, my ratings. And if there's a need I'm prepared to give up my own position – as long as peace arrives. But without giving up our territories – ever (people stand up and applaud again, -ed.).

    History is not fair, that's true. It wasn't us who started this war, it wasn't us. But it's our job to end it. And we're ready for a dialogue. But (switches to Russian at this point, probably for the Russians to understand, -ed.) I'm confident that the first step for this dialogue to take place would be the return of all Ukrainian prisoners of war.

    (Switches back to Ukrainian, -ed. Our next challenge is to return the lost territories. But, to be honest, I don't think such wording is correct since it's impossible to lose something that rightfully belongs to us. Both Crimea and Donbas are Ukrainian lands. We didn't just lose the territories, we lost the most important thing: the people. (Switches to Russian again, -ed. Today, we just must – I'm sure they're listening to us – to get their conscience back. We lost this conscience. All these years, the government has not done anything to make them feel Ukrainian.

    (Switches back to Ukrainian, -ed. They're not foreign, they're our people, they're Ukrainians. Excuse me? (Zelenskyy addresses MP Oleh Lyashko in the parliament who shouted that the people in the Donbas and Crimea can understand Ukrainian, -ed.) They understand Ukrainian? Really? Thank you very much. Thanks for carrying on dividing the nation, Mr. Lyashko. Because a Ukrainian... I want to say: yes, we're all Ukrainians. Regardless of where we live because Ukrainian is not what's written in your passport. Ukrainian is what's right here (points at his heart, -ed.). And that's it.

    I know this for sure. I know this from the soldiers who defend Ukraine, from our heroes. Both the Ukrainian- and the Russian-speaking ones. There's no such thing as a strong army – I want to address them – there's no such thing as a strong army in places where a government does not respect the people who give up their lives for their own country every day.

    I will do everything so that you feel this respect. That means a worthy and, most importantly, stable financial support. It's your living conditions. It's your legal vacations after carrying out military tasks. Vacations for you and your families. We need not to talk about the NATO standards, but to create them – to create these standards.

    Of course, apart from the war, there are many other problems here that make Ukrainians unhappy. I'm talking about the shocking tariffs, humiliating salaries and pensions, painful prices, the absence of job opportunities. It's the healthcare the improvement of which is only talked about by those who never had to stay in a regular hospital with a child. It's the infamous Ukrainian roads that are only being repaired inside someone's imagination.

    Please let me quote one American actor who turned into a great American president. The government is not here to solve all our problems, the government is our problem. It's just a quote.

    And to be honest, I don't understand our government when all it does is shrugs and says "there's nothing we can do." That's not true, you can. You can take a piece of paper and a pen and free your seats in favor of all those who will think about the next generations and not about the next elections. I think that the people will appreciate [this step.] Somehow, only some of you are applauding, I'm speaking from the nation, please...

    My election [as president] only proves that the citizens are tired of the experienced politicians who over the past 28 years created a country of opportunities – opportunities to steal, bribe and loot. Let's build a country of other opportunities. Where everybody is equal before the law and where the rules of the game are honest and transparent, that are the same for everyone. And for this to happen, people who want to serve the nation, need to take office. And please, I really don't want you to hang my portraits on your office walls. Because a president is not an icon and not an idol. A president is not a portrait. Hang pictures of your children. And before you make any decision, look into their eyes.

    You know, I could talk a lot more but I know that Ukrainians want actions, not words. Therefore, dear lawmakers... You yourselves have chosen Monday to be the inauguration day, a weekday. I see a pro in this. This means we won't party but we will work instead. So I'm asking you to please adopt the law on canceling the parliamentary immunity, the law on criminal responsibility for illegal enrichment, the much-anticipated electoral code. And please make the lists open to the public.

    And please, I'm asking you to dismiss the following people: the head of the Security Service of Ukraine, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine. And that's far from all you can do. But that would be a good enough start. I give you two months to do that, you have two months for that. Please do that and then get yourselves medals. And this is a good chance to announce snap parliamentary elections. I'm dissolving the Ukrainian Parliament of the 8th convocation.

    Glory to Ukraine!

    Thank you all! As far as I understand, you've all just consulted already. And the last thing, in short. Dear nation, throughout my life, I've been trying to do everything for Ukrainians to smile. I felt with my heart that it wasn't just my job, it was my mission. In the next five years, I will do everything so that you, Ukrainians, don't cry. Thank you.
    The legality of his stated but not yet written decree for the dissolution of the Rada is currently the debate among political circles. Getting rid of of the three Ministers is, in my view wise; the Prosecutor General, who formerly ran Poroshenko's Party in the Parliament, does not even have a law degree and was conniving with Guiliani.
    Last edited by snapper; 21 May 19, at 18:31.

  11. #386
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    The INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL FOR THE LAW OF THE SEA has issued a verdict on the illegal detention of the Ukrainian seamen detained by Muscovy following their illegal seizure of Ukrainian ships passing through the Kerch Straits; basically they must be released; https://www.itlos.org/fileadmin/itlo.../PR_284_En.pdf

    Of course criminal regimes such as the Putin one are criminal so quoting law at them is perfectly useless.

  12. #387
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    Interesting Court Case going on currently (started yesterday) at the UN Court in the Hague Ukraine vs Muscovy on the grounds that Muscovy has breached the ICFT; that being the International Convention [against] Financing Terrorism. If the Court rules in favour of Ukraine it is condemning Muscovy as a funder of terrorism, which could potentially have implications for their position in the UN Assembly.

    Yesterday the Muscovite lawyers argued that the case was not within the Court's jurisdiction due to various things as an attempt between the two parties to negotiate for 6 months having failed before the case can brought.

    For those interested in the legal arguments you can watch them here: http://webtv.un.org/The/watch/the-in...erm&lan=french (this is Ukraine pressing the case today but you can find yesterday's sessions here also).

  13. #388
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    Impeachment process Bill presented to the Rada: https://en.hromadske.ua/posts/the-im...ction-promises

  14. #389
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    The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) into the fate of flight MH17 in 2014 today announced that it intends to prosecute four people in the Hague for murder regarding this crime. Video of their presentation today:


  15. #390
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    There have been a couple of controversial rulings by the Ukrainian Supreme Court recently. The first involves the time of the Parliamentary elections. The new President Zelensky (or with two y's according to some) naturally wants early elections being flush from his Presidential election victory and not having had time to screw up too much as yet. So as I recounted the existed Rada (Parliament) formally dissolved the coalition which had been formed between Yatsenyuk's and Poroshenko's Deputies (MP's) to pass the legislation during Poroshenko's term office as President. This in theory meant no election could be called for six weeks which would enable another part of the Constitution to prevent a dissolution of Parliament for new elections within six months of the Constitutional time limit when it has to dissolve for elections. No no says the Court; early elections can go ahead and these are now to be held on July 21st.

    An interesting newcomer in the coming Rada elections is a Party (Holos meaning Voice) formed by the lead signer of Okean Elzy (a popular Ukrainian rock band) Svyatoslav (or 'Slava') Vakarchuk which is rising in the polls. It had been thought that Vakarchuk might enter the Presidential race previously but he did not.

    The second controversial ruling of the Supreme Court recently relates to the former Georgian President and Governor of Odessa Mikheil Saakashvili, whom Zelensky allowed back into the country last month after Poroshenko had pronounced his application for citizenship irregular and thrown him out (eventually) in 2018. In this case the Court ruled that 'Sarko' could stand in the upcoming Rada elections which it had said it would be constitutional to hold. If the go ahead for early elections rulings was suspect this is ruling, from the Constitutional point of view, is clearly mistaken at best as in order to stand for election by the Constitution a person must have their primary domicile in Ukraine and have had Ukrainian citizenship. Since Saakashvili's Ukrainian citizenship was declared irregular and therefore none existent and he was thrown out for this reason it is impossible for him to meet the requirements to stand for election. Either that or the Court must also call Poroshenko's actions in rescinding Saakashvili's citizenship also illegal but this they have not done. Both cannot be right and the current position just leads to mockery of the Court which is now seen as Kolomoisky's tool having - it having previously ruled the nationalisation of Kolomoisky owned PrivatBank illegal. PrivatBank has by the way launched a case of it's own against Kolomoisky for misappropriation and laundering of proceeds of corporate loans in Deleware US.

    Elsewhere there is a new Chief of General Staff appointed by Zelensky. Lieutenant General Ruslan Khomchak replaces Viktor Muzhenko. He was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant General in order to occupy this post. Previously he was 'Sector Commander D' Colonel Khomchak when the Ilovaisk tragedy occurred. There is a history here because obviously after the disaster at Ilovaisk Muzhenko tried to pin the blame on Khomchak. One of the glaring deficiencies of Ilovaisk and Debaltseve though was those at their desks in Kyiv wanted overall control of every movement at the front 370 miles away. This nearly proved fatal for some at Debaltseve when communications could not be established so the senior officer in the 'pocket' took it upon himself to order the withdrawal that saved many. Khomchak was personally in Ilovaisk and is said to have been the only senior Officer that remained in the area after the Muscovites invaded. Meanwhile Muzhenko, pressured by Poroshenko to produce a 'quick victory' was trying to manage a crumbling rushed advance with inadequate forces that frankly were not then upto the job. Both were doing what they thought best and doing their duty but the strategy and Poroshenko's promise of a 'quick victory' as well as the Poroshenko's newly appointed Minister of Defence's (Heletey) promise of a 'victory parade in Sevastapol'.

    Muzhenko (appointed August 2014) has been much maligned and praised from different sides. Though a graduate of some old Soviet Military Academy in St Petersburg he was not immune to change and delegating command of the front to locally situated Officers. In the meantime he oversaw a massive renovation and renewal of the UAF with new weapons, new logistics, new chains of command. He has served his country and if Khomchak does half as well with what we have now compared to August 2014 we should recover the occupied territories soon.

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