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Thread: Ukraine Elections and Political Developments

  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    OOE, what do you make of reports that a large number of Ukrainian experts have been recruited to work in China?
    Would not be surprising. The VARYAG is an example. Ukrainian expertise was involved in shoring up the structures.

    However, if you are enquiring about nuclear expertise, then it would be indirect. All nuclear weapons experts are under non-disclosure clause but there are cases where such expertise was applied elsewhere. Iran is famous of seeking Russian diamond manufacturing expertise to apply that knowledge to weapons.

  2. #257
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    Apparently the whole Saakashvilli circus has now decamped the train, much to the relief of the other passengers doubtless, and is now en route to road crossing at Krakovets by bus.

    Update: It now appears the checkpoint was stormed and Misha is back in Ukraine. I am no Saakashvili fan in particular but this was clearly political and has done nothing but show how petty Poroshenko is. Video here; http://rustavi2.ge/ka/news/84613
    Last edited by snapper; 10 Sep 17, at 18:44.

  3. #258
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    The "Misha saga" has sadly dragged on it seems today. Seems having illegally entered Ukraine yesterday evening he made it to Lviv (or Lvov in Polish, Lemberg in German or even Leopolis in Greek) where last night he appeared with Yulia (of course) and the Mayor of Lviv Andriy Sadovyi, leader of the Self Reliance political Party, which at the last Rada elections did surprisingly well though Sadovyi himself did not stand (there is a video of this on Saakashvili's fb). He apparently stayed at the night at the Armenian Church, in which is there is some irony.

    Today the Prosecutor General, a pal of Poroshenko's and not even a lawyer, publicly advised Saakashvili to seek a legal remedy. Avakov, who once threw water in his face at a Cabinet meeting and is actually Armenian said that Saakashvili either had to go back to border or report to the Migration Service.



    Despite this earlier incident with the water throwing they actually made up soon after and now Avakov's relationship with Poroshenko is strained to say the least he may have an interest in keeping Misha around (which of course is the pure opportunism of Yulia Tymoshenko and most of the rest of them). Meanwhile

    Today the fugitive held a press conference outside the Leopolis Hotel in Lviv. Those who understand the language can find the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr29ZB9K0jw though there is some english in his speech around the 20min mark. Bemoaning the wrongs done to him mostly but actually quite a good speech.

    Seems to me that they are all wrong in this farce. Poroshenko was wrong to rescind his passport in the first place - it was a dirty trick clearly done for political motives and as the spark of this ongoing farce he must bear the most blame. None of this would have happened but for his fit of personal pique. Nor were the moves to try to prevent Misha getting to the border yesterday, stopping the train, saying the Krakovets crossing was subject to a bomb scare etc... either wise nor dignified. Saakashvilli has clearly entered the country illegally, though not quite in the same manner as the Muscovites as some have said. Obviously this will end in court one way or another.

    Obviously the next question is whether to arrest him? If you do not what does it say for the rule of law? If you do he becomes another Yulia Tymoshenko. It's a lose - lose politically whatever is decided and a Saakashvili win no matter. I would say that just from his press coverage and the speeches this has allowed him to make his support is likely to rise significantly. The other question is whether the opposition reformist forces will unify now around his banner? Well that depends what mean by reformist I suppose. Poroshenko would doubtless class himself as a reformer - and in truth he is compared to previous Ukrainian Presidents. For some this is not fast enough or deep enough (of which I am one). The remnants of Yatsenyuk's Party has some real reformers as does the Self Reliance Party and the Democratic Alliance and Mustafa Nayeem (of the Dem Alliance Party) was on the train with Misha yesterday. It is possible I suppose and I hope it happens so we can really clean this country out though Saakashvili himself cannot be elected as he has not held citizenship long enough. In this end Poroshenko started this and for better or for worse it has come back to bite him.

    Meanwhile those concerned with more important matters are awaiting the Zapad 17 exercises due to start on Thursday in which Moscow says only 5,000 Muscovite troops will be engaged but has ordered over 1000 rail carriages for.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I remind you that these countries, including the Ukraines, are still under the Russian nuclear umbrella.
    Very slick of Russia. Let's superimpose this on the far east.

    There is no need for Japan or SK to go nuclear because they too enjoy a US nuclear umbrella and for so long as it holds.


    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I also remind you that it was not that long ago that the Ukraines gave permission to Moscow to fly paratroopers to Pristina - with popular support.
    You mean this ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incide...istina_airport

    If so then the irony is noted. Supported Russian intervention in another country but not ones own

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I also remind you that the two countries who faced Russian hostile acts, the Ukraines and Georgia, don't have an alliance with each other.
    That would be counter productive for both. Instead both aspire to join NATO, requiring a political climate that may never allow for it.

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  6. #261
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    Poroshenko yesterday at the Yalta European Strategy forum;


  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Poroshenko yesterday at the Yalta European Strategy forum;
    I really wonder why this forum have "Yalta" in his name, and wonder much more about Poroshenko's speech about next year. I think President must be closer to real life, I think he has many lower level speakers to sound such dreams.

  8. #263
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    Привіт, the Yalta European Strategy (YES) forum started in 2004 and of course Ukraine wants Crimea back. Poroshenko is mouthing off because basically election maneuvering is going on. За вашу и нашу свободу!

  9. #264
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    Something amusing regarding 'Zapad 17' which is intended to fight 'little green men' type attacks from three imaginary states in north eastern Belarus. These imaginary enemies are called Veyshnoria, Vesbaria and Lubenia. Well Veyshnoria has become a hit in Belarus. Passports have been issued and social media spokespeople etc, even a 'Provisional Government for Liberation'. You reap what you sow.

  10. #265
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    Seems the press needed another message in the marvelous 'New Mucovite Empire' (or the guy was drunk more likely) in these Zapad 17 rehearsals;


  11. #266
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    Lasted longer for my family. Now we defend it again.
    Last edited by snapper; 22 Sep 17, at 01:38.

  12. #267
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    Perhaps not the happiest birthday for V.V.Putin yesterday, the 11th anniversary of the murder of Anna Polotskaya as wave of Navalny called protests were held all over the empire. Navalny and his campaign director were sentenced to 20 days imprisonment because he called for a protest St Petersburg to celebrate the tyrant's birthday and according to the judge at Navalny's trial he had called for protests near "sensitive areas". One such "sensitive area" quoted by the judge was a private deaf clinic. Hence the protests across the Empire.

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    This is from Moscow. People chanting "Putin is a thief" etc according to reports. Over 200 arrests in Petrograd I heard. Happy Birthday, sic semper tyrannis. The end is coming.

    It seems that among the speculative chattering class - thought has now turned to the next Muscovite election. Putin was 65 yesterday, Navalny specifically referred to him an "old man" before being locked up and there is a presidential election (from which Navalny is banned for some previous imaginary infraction of the law regarding fraud with some State owned timber company). If Putin does stand for re-election (he has not said he will...yet) and win (a good bet) he would be 71 when the next term ended and could not stand again for a third consecutive term or again until he was 77. The Medvedev Presidency that allowed him to retain hold of the real power - "castleing move" as it is sometimes called - is unlikely to work again; 'Dima' (Medvedev) has been deeply exposed by Navalny and it is now toxic even among the elite. Even should a substitute be found to fill the same role and enable another "castle move" the growing age of the neo Tsar, it is argued, would sap influence from Putin to the squabble over possible successors. The main focus of these speculations - and there are indications this squabble is going on already such as the arrest of a Cabinet Minister and the demotion of Ivanov last year (both seen to favour Sechin) - is that Muscovy does not have a real succession system. When was the last democratically elected Muscovite leader that could transfer power to a political opponent peacefully? Not sure it has ever happened. So assuming Putin runs and naturally is 'elected' again is he a 'lame duck' President on his last term?

    Zapad 17 reports are now in. Naturally they vastly underrated the numbers involved; Ukrainian reports indicate that some 20,000 Muscovite troops entered Belerusian territory of which some 6,000 have remained with alot of stores and equipment. We believe these troops are busy building forward bases within Belarus. Some of the remaining Muscovite soldiers have apparently been attacked in Belarus by 'terrorists'. Doubtless 'fascists' or something...

    They are not winning this war and will not. There is war coming within the Muscovite Empire.

  13. #268
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    The Rada today (finally) passed a law on medical reform.

    Also a new Chatham House on Ukrainian progress (or lack of); https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/f...rr-wolczuk.pdf

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