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  • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    So this law has very definitely been passed by the legislature & signed into law? yes or no.



    Thanks for reminding us why Russians are so loathed by their neighbours. At least Germans are actually ashamed of their past.
    Whats there to be ashamed of?*nothing*(its a rhetorical question) Germans lost.

    not sure if it has been voted on but it was proposed which means either it will be voted on (or was already)
    Originally from Sochi, Russia.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cyppok View Post
      not sure if it has been voted on but it was proposed which means either it will be voted on (or was already)
      In other words you have no idea what is going on. You just got another hysterical story from some Russian website. Same old same old.
      Whats there to be ashamed of?*nothing*(its a rhetorical question) Germans lost.
      Anyone who has ever wondered why pretty much every ethnic minority on Russia's borders found it so easy to join the Nazis need only follow your posts.
      sigpic

      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
        In other words you have no idea what is going on. You just got another hysterical story from some Russian website. Same old same old.

        Anyone who has ever wondered why pretty much every ethnic minority on Russia's borders found it so easy to join the Nazis need only follow your posts.
        they are working on it actually. Core people(s) no longer include Russians which means that all those rights mentioned are not applicable to them nor are constitutional rights. My sense is they are waiting when it quiets down to pass it.
        Îô³ö³éíèé ïîðòàë Âåðõîâíî¿ Ðàäè Óêðà¿íè
        Розділ I. ЗАГАЛЬНІ ПОЛОЖЕННЯ
        Стаття 1. Корінний народ України – автохтонна етнічна спільнота, яка компактно проживає та етногенез якої відбувся на території в межах лінії державного кордону України, яка становить етнічну меншість у складі населення України і не має власного державного утворення за межами України.
        Титульною нацією в Україні є українці. Корінними народами України є кримські татари, караїми, кримчаки, які компактно проживають на території Автономної Республіки Крим – невід’ємній складовій частині України.
        They erased Russians from there I think.
        Îô³ö³éíèé ïîðòàë Âåðõîâíî¿ Ðàäè Óêðà¿íè
        so no it didn't pass, it is being "developed" but once it does pass it impacts this.

        This is waiting after it does to clinch everything.
        Îô³ö³éíèé ïîðòàë Âåðõîâíî¿ Ðàäè Óêðà¿íè
        demographic register once they do this they can proof out undesirables.

        notice its from the Rada...
        Originally from Sochi, Russia.

        Comment


        • [QUOTE=cyppok;956995]
          so no it didn't pass, it is being "developed" but once it does pass it impacts this.
          So all we have is a draft law & your word as to what it says & what it means. In other words nothing. Get back to us with an accurate translation when it passes.

          I'll leave it to the Russian speakers here with some credibility to weigh the accuracy of translation & interpretation.
          sigpic

          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

          Comment


          • Originally posted by cyppok View Post
            P.S. Minskaya, Hopefully Russia invades soon.
            I didn't know that Putin wanted a second Afghanistan?

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            • Cyppok!

              This is a very public warning. In one page you advocate for the use of nuclear weapons against a neighbor and advocating for the invasion of a neighboring sovereign nation by Russia.

              Knock it off...NOW!

              You have been playing free and loose with the WAB rules for some time now. You have been here too long to behave in thsi manner.

              Again, this is your one and only warning.

              Repeats of that behavior will result in a banning.
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                Dok, the difference between an "official" language and all the others is that the latter are not official. It doesn't mean you can't speak and write in them.

                It's just that the official business and laws of a country are best written in one language to avoid confusion. The official language of the US is English. When a non-English speaking person is tried in a US court, the law requires the court to provide an interpreter, but the official transcript will be in English.
                AS for Crimea, one of the main claims about "official language" was that even medical prescriptions and instructions for drugs were in Ukrainian.
                Also it concerns education. Kids in schools have to learn algebra or physics in Ukrainian. And many-many other details. It's not that simple.

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                • Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                  In practical terms, there is little difference between language stature within Ukraine and Russia. Yet cyppok alleges that the Ukraine regimen is unfair and discriminatory.

                  My point is that either both are discriminatory or neither is discriminatory. He can't have it one way in regards to Ukraine, and another way in regards to Russia.
                  Why cyppok can't? There is a big difference between Ukraine and Russia in the sense of language situation. Who can argue with it?
                  If this is not important, if this is not real problem, why one the first actions of the new Kiev authorities was the cancellation of so-called "language law"?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                    It's just that the official business and laws of a country are best written in one language to avoid confusion.
                    Eh, it's more about rights so - and not just in court. If you fill any form, do any kind of communication with a state authority, this has to be in (one of) the official language(s) of the country. If you provide some sustaining evidence, it has to be translated beforehand (usually at your cost). That's what it's about. A second official language allows one to act in a public communicative capacity in that second language.

                    Ukraine has a sole de jure official language, and that's Ukrainian. It acknowledges socalled "regional languages" though since 2012 and allows these to be used in communication with the government within the district this regional language is acknowledged in. Communicating with the government beyond the borders of these areas is required to be in Russian. Russian is an acknowledged "regional language" by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea; Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv, Kherson, Mikolayiv, Zaporizhia and Odessa oblasts; and the cities of Lukhansk and Sevastopol.

                    The adoption of this law on "regional languages" was fought against (and we're talking fists flying in parliament) in particular by the Ukrainian nationalists that are now in power, so it might not survive all that long any more. In fact the nationalists already tried to have it abolished - one of the first things they did in late February - but Turchinov vetoed that.

                    Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                    The official language of the US is English.
                    The USA does not have a de jure official language. Hence why e.g. there are also government forms etc in Spanish in some places. This would not be possible legally if the sole official language was English.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kato View Post
                      Eh, it's more about rights so - and not just in court. If you fill any form, do any kind of communication with a state authority, this has to be in (one of) the official language(s) of the country. If you provide some sustaining evidence, it has to be translated beforehand (usually at your cost). That's what it's about. A second official language allows one to act in a public communicative capacity in that second language.

                      Ukraine has a sole de jure official language, and that's Ukrainian. It acknowledges socalled "regional languages" though since 2012 and allows these to be used in communication with the government within the district this regional language is acknowledged in. Communicating with the government beyond the borders of these areas is required to be in Russian. Russian is an acknowledged "regional language" by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea; Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv, Kherson, Mikolayiv, Zaporizhia and Odessa oblasts; and the cities of Lukhansk and Sevastopol.

                      The adoption of this law on "regional languages" was fought against (and we're talking fists flying in parliament) in particular by the Ukrainian nationalists that are now in power, so it might not survive all that long any more. In fact the nationalists already tried to have it abolished - one of the first things they did in late February - but Turchinov vetoed that.


                      The USA does not have a de jure official language. Hence why e.g. there are also government forms etc in Spanish in some places. This would not be possible legally if the sole official language was English.

                      I don't know what we are arguing about here. Multiplicity of languages used in official documents is a prescription for confusion and misunderstanding. Convenience translations on signs, in ads, directions and so forth are common and practical. But wording of laws must be consistent. The last thing we want is a Tower of Babel.
                      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                      • Putin has informed Angela Merkel by phone that he has ordered a partial withdrawal of Russian forces from the border. He did not elaborate on what the term 'partial' infers.
                        sigpic

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                        • Just so there are no misunderstandings, with military forces on the border threatening invasion, Russia is demanding Ukraine rewrite its constitution to create a federalized Ukraine with highly autonomous regions that can write their own laws and formulate their own foreign policy.

                          Anyone with even half a brain can appreciate that implementation results in the dismemberment of Ukraine.

                          In application, Russia's demand here is nothing less than "invasion by other means".




                          To get an idea of what Russia is demanding of Ukraine, rewrite the US Constitution and carve up the United States into regions.

                          This new US Constitution will empower each of these regions to legislate their own laws and conduct foreign policy independently.



                          It doesn't take a genius to realize that the United States - as its citizens know it and love it - would cease to exist.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                            Putin has informed Angela Merkel by phone that he has ordered a partial withdrawal of Russian forces from the border. He did not elaborate on what the term 'partial' infers.
                            Back to Plan A.Liberators will come when unrest starts in Ukraine,again.
                            Those who know don't speak
                            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                            • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                              I don't know what we are arguing about here. Multiplicity of languages used in official documents is a prescription for confusion and misunderstanding. Convenience translations on signs, in ads, directions and so forth are common and practical. But wording of laws must be consistent. The last thing we want is a Tower of Babel.
                              We're not talking convenience translations, or laws. We're talking about which language to file your forms for whatever in. In the USA, due to lack of an official language you can do that e.g. [en Espanol]. In a country with an official language (like Ukraine) the state office you're handing this form in to would not be allowed to offer or accept such in any other languages.

                              The language question is actually the one big decisive one in Ukraine - and it's not about "native" language, it's about whether someone speaks either language at all. 30% of the population only speak Ukrainian, 40% speak both Ukrainian and Russian, and 30% only speak Russian and do not speak Ukrainian*. Not having Russian as a second official language basically disenfranchises 30% of the population heavily concentrated in the South and Southeast.
                              *These numbers vary a bit between surveys, but in broad strokes those numbers stick. The 40% who speak both languages can be further differentiated into about 35% who have Ukrainian as their native and Russian as their second language, and (only) 5% who have Russian as their native language and also speak Ukrainian.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                                I don't know what we are arguing about here. Multiplicity of languages used in official documents is a prescription for confusion and misunderstanding. Convenience translations on signs, in ads, directions and so forth are common and practical. But wording of laws must be consistent. The last thing we want is a Tower of Babel.
                                Documents in multiple languages isn't much of a problem in my opinion. Here in Los Angeles, official documents in English, and in Spanish is the norm. The only issue might be the requirement of a larger table to support trays of documents in both languages. In fact, I live in Monterey Park (a few miles from downtown Los Angeles), which happens to have the distinction of having the greatest proportion of ethnic Chinese for any city in the United States (I'm Caucasian) -- so official forms in Chinese are the norm here as well.

                                Of course, I'm dead-set against any language other than English being the "de-facto" language here. And school instruction must be in English. I won't ever change my view on that.
                                Last edited by Goatboy; 31 Mar 14,, 23:01.

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