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  • #16
    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
    Yet the immigrants have no problem to sneak trough US borders and redistribute the wealth.
    Immigration is hardly an existential threat. The United States has always had immigration and it is one of the things keeping our demographics healthy while much of the rest of the developed world has a rapidly aging population. The United States has lots of land, lots of capital, and room to continue growing our population and economy for quite some time.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Crocodylus View Post
      It is not very often that one finds informed commentary on the comment threads following most articles online. In fact, the vast majority of comments make their original publishers look foolish. However, on Yahoo!News, not the likeliest of places in which to find informed commentary, I found the following comment by an American reader known as "Tran Thai Tong".

      My hat's off to this guy.

      The original article can be found here: McCain: 'Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country'
      If this guy thought the Superpowers of the day had it tough, he should take a look at the non-super powers.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
        Immigration is hardly an existential threat. The United States has always had immigration and it is one of the things keeping our demographics healthy while much of the rest of the developed world has a rapidly aging population. The United States has lots of land, lots of capital, and room to continue growing our population and economy for quite some time.
        I meant illegal one.

        If you guys are fine with it, I have no problem. Just if you are fine, make it legal. Yeah, see how it goes ;)
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
          Immigration is hardly an existential threat. The United States has always had immigration and it is one of the things keeping our demographics healthy while much of the rest of the developed world has a rapidly aging population. The United States has lots of land, lots of capital, and room to continue growing our population and economy for quite some time.
          In the 18th and 19th centuries, most immigrants to North America came from the British Isles and Northern Europe. Hence most of the US and Canada was (Nordic) White. Immigration from Southern Europe and East Asia began to rise late in the 19th century, but the number that could enter the US was restricted, while immigration from the British Isles and Northern Europe went largely unrestricted.

          Nowadays, with the abolition of US immigration quotas, most new immigrants to the US come from places that, in the 19th and early 20th centuries, were not considered as having suitable candidates for US citizenship.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by kato View Post
            Actually you did just that - along with Russia, France, the UK and the Republic of China - in 1949.
            Is this what is going to save the world when the green men come calling?

            Or the Kaiju.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Crocodylus View Post
              In the 18th and 19th centuries, most immigrants to North America came from the British Isles and Northern Europe. Hence most of the US and Canada was (Nordic) White. Immigration from Southern Europe and East Asia began to rise late in the 19th century, but the number that could enter the US was restricted, while immigration from the British Isles and Northern Europe went largely unrestricted.

              Nowadays, with the abolition of US immigration quotas, most new immigrants to the US come from places that, in the 19th and early 20th centuries, were not considered as having suitable candidates for US citizenship.
              If I recall correctly, immigrant groups from Europe weren’t exactly welcomed with open arms in many cases even if they were English speaking white people. A prime example of which was the slogan seen in many newspapers advertising jobs “No Irish Need Apply”.

              From what I have seen, the first generation of immigrants to arrive is poor, has trouble speaking English and generally fitting in to American society. But their children strive to be Americans in every sense of the word. These 2nd generation immigrants help keep American society fresh by challenging established modes of thought with foreign ideas, customs, and ways of doing things but with an American spin on them.

              The only concern I have with regards to immigration is the establishment of large enclaves in which people do not integrate into American society even in the 3rd or 4th generation. This can unfortunately be seen in the Southwest in areas closer to Mexico. There are large areas where Spanish is the predominant language, and Mexican culture is the rule rather than the exception. This is a trap for children growing up in these areas because they do not learn to speak English or adopt American customs. Since they do not possess these skills, they can never leave their enclave and integrate into broader American society except at the bottom rungs. How many companies in Kansas or Minnesota want to hire a guy who doesn’t have a good command of the English language?

              I believe this is a big reason why we see immigrants from Europe, India, and Asia succeeding in American society today while many Latin American groups struggle. People from Asia are forced to cut ties with their native lands when they come to the U.S. seeking a better life. They cannot drive back across the border to Mexico when they are homesick or feeling insecure. They are forced to adapt to an unfamiliar culture, learn a language, and attempt to make their way in a new society. Many don’t fully succeed in overcoming these hurdles, but their children do.

              This is why I am optimistic about immigration as a whole, but concerned about the lack of integration in specific areas.

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              • #22
                Steve,

                I can show you chunks of Chicago and Milwaukee where the exact things you apply to the Hispanics still goes with Eastern European populations. Same in New York.

                Part of the "assimilation issue" in the Southwest is, frankly, racial. Its the refusal of the "native" white populations to acknowledge they are several centuries behind the Latino population in being in the area. And most of the Latino population in question is not of European Spanish blood but are of the native Indian bloodlines....whcih go back several millenia.

                Its enough to ask....who is the immigrant? Who refuses to assimilate?
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  Steve,

                  I can show you chunks of Chicago and Milwaukee where the exact things you apply to the Hispanics still goes with Eastern European populations. Same in New York.

                  Part of the "assimilation issue" in the Southwest is, frankly, racial. Its the refusal of the "native" white populations to acknowledge they are several centuries behind the Latino population in being in the area. And most of the Latino population in question is not of European Spanish blood but are of the native Indian bloodlines....whcih go back several millenia.

                  Its enough to ask....who is the immigrant? Who refuses to assimilate?
                  My concern is less to do with “who got here first” and more focused on how people can be successful in today’s society. Any time you have a ghetto, or town, or large neighborhood where kids grow up in an environment that is effectively insulated from mainstream American society, it severely restricts their future options. Employment in other parts of the country will become much more difficult to find, political representation will be tough to acquire, and legal options often remain unknown.

                  The result is that these kids growing up are stuck in their insular community and the cycle continues. An insulated Korean community in a larger city will often find it difficult to obtain effective political representation even at the local level. This leads to dissatisfaction in the community as their needs are not addressed.

                  I want immigrants who come to the United States to succeed and prosper while giving the best parts of their culture to the mainstream of American society in a mutually beneficial relationship. When you have whole communities that are physically in America but not participating in the wider American society, I think it deprives the immigrants and their children of a better shot in life, and deprives American society of the unique ideas and culture these groups can bring with them.

                  I did not mean to imply that the phenomenon of insulated enclaves of immigrants in the U.S. was solely a Hispanic one, only that is seems to be particularly prevalent among the Hispanic community in areas closer to the Southern border.

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                  • #24
                    I think Steve makes an important point about cutting the umblical cord and physical geographical proximity.

                    But Steve, except for China maybe, definitely in India and probably in most of the subcontinent and SE Asia, English is the de facto common language of education of the upwardly mobile. And more often than not, this is the demographic that reaches the states. The demographic that reaches the UK as a comparison is slightly different. And slightly different for Australia as well.

                    So its not like they learn English to assimilate into American culture and society. Most of them are pretty English fluent by the time they get there. The first generation non-English speaking waves were more common in the 60s and 70s maybe even the 80s. Not so much now.

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