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  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post

    US suspects missing Malaysian plane flew on for hours: Report



    What is one to make of all these developments?
    The Malaysian Transport minister has now denied the report about the plane flying for hours after its transponder shut off. This has been a repetitive feature. Some news agency publishes a report revealing brand new information that would totally change theories about what happened. Then some Malaysian official gives a press release saying the report is incorrect, and we are back to square one. Both the press and the authorities have made a pig's breakfast of things. I can't imagine what the families of the victim's must be going through.

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    • Such a large search party and they still can't find the plane.

      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Monash View Post
        A whole lot of things have to go wrong for this kind of scenario to be plausible.

        1) The pilots have to invite one or two females into the cockpit
        2) They have to select the (presumably attractive) female terrorists and only the female terrorists from every other female on board the plane.
        3) The terrorists, having gained entry to the cockpit have to overpower the aircrew (without weapons - unless of course KL Airport security is totally compromised.)
        4) They have to do this so quickly that the aircrew have no time to activate any alerts or transmit any warnings.
        5) Having gained control of the cockpit the terrorists have to have the technical competence/training to fly the plane and/or at least turn off the auto-pilot, all transponders and other on broad monitoring and reporting systems - all of which implies at least some previous exposure to the Boeing 777's flight control systems.
        6) Having organized all of this the terrorist cell responsible has to maintain complete security discipline and not make any public claim of responsibility.
        7) Those involved have to have avoided any previous close association with active terrorist groups (i.e. be clean skins) because if they haven't post incident review by various international security organizations will 'ping' them and identify the group responsible - and so far on this front silencio.
        Sorry for not being more clear. I was thinking on the lines that the plane has been hijacked and landed somewhere. i'm basing this on the fact that the transponder has been deliberately switched off.

        Cheers!...on the rocks!!

        Comment


        • Another report more strongly suggesting there was data transfer for 4 hours after the disappearance. This according to US sources. Does bring up the fact concerning whether Malaysian Airlines and/or government spokesman can be trusted in what they say. The USS Kidd has been tasked to the Indian Ocean and one report says the Malaysian government made that request to the US. which would mean an apparent change from their earlier position.

          Missing Plane Sent Signals To Satellite For Hours : NPR

          Search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane expands to Indian Ocean - CNN.com

          Malaysian handling
          Do Malaysian officials' reports add up? - CNN.com Video
          Last edited by tbm3fan; 14 Mar 14,, 07:00.

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          • Now we know why the Malaysians did not know about the Satellite pings from the engine: they didn't buy the data plan. :slap:

            Satellite Data Reveal Route of Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 - WSJ.com

            Satellite Data Reveal Route of Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane
            Jetliner 'Pinged' Satellites With Location, Altitude for Hours After Disappearance
            By
            Jon Ostrower,
            Andy Pasztor and
            Julian E. Barnes
            Updated March 13, 2014 8:43 p.m. ET

            WSJ's Andy Pasztor has been reporting on Flight MH370 since it disappeared. Here he explains how a plane can still transmit "pings" that allow investigators to track it even after its main tracking systems — or transponders — are shut off.

            Malaysia Airlines ' missing jet transmitted its location repeatedly to satellites over the course of five hours after it disappeared from radar, people briefed on the matter said, as searchers zeroed in on new target areas hundreds of miles west of the plane's original course.

            The satellites also received speed and altitude information about the plane from its intermittent "pings," the people said. The final ping was sent from over water, at what one of these people called a normal cruising altitude. They added that it was unclear why the pings stopped. One of the people, an industry official, said it was possible that the system sending them had been disabled by someone on board.

            The people, who included a military official, the industry official and others, declined to say what specific path the transmissions revealed. But the U.S. planned to move surveillance planes into an area of the Indian Ocean 1,000 miles or more west of the Malay peninsula where the plane took off, said Cmdr. William Marks, the spokesman for the U.S. Seventh Fleet.

            He said the destroyer USS Kidd would move through the Strait of Malacca, on Malaysia's west coast, and stay at its northwest entrance. Malaysia, which is overseeing the search effort, directed Indian forces to a specific set of coordinates in the Andaman Sea, northwest of the Malay peninsula, an Indian official said Thursday. "There was no specified rationale behind looking in those areas, but a detailed list was provided late Wednesday evening," the Indian official said.

            The automatic pings, or attempts to link up with satellites operated by Inmarsat PLC, occurred a number of times after Flight 370's last verified position, the people briefed on the situation said, indicating that at least through those five hours, the Boeing Co. 777 carrying 239 people remained intact and hadn't been destroyed in a crash, act of sabotage or explosion.

            Malaysia Airlines said it hadn't received any such data. According to Boeing, the plane's manufacturer, the airline didn't purchase a package through Boeing to monitor its airplanes' data through the satellite system.

            If the plane remained airborne for the entire five hours, it could have flown more than 2,200 nautical miles from its last confirmed position over the Gulf of Thailand, the people said.

            U.S. aviation investigators said they were analyzing the satellite transmissions to determine whether they can glean information about the plane's ultimate location or status. The transmissions were sent via onboard technology designed to send routine maintenance and system-monitoring data back to the ground via satellite links, according to the people familiar with the matter.

            Among the possible scenarios investigators said they are now considering is whether the jet may have landed at any point during the five-hour period under scrutiny, or whether it ultimately crashed.

            Muslims pray for the passengers of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 at Jame'asr Hassanil Bolkiah Mosque in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei, on Thursday. Reuters

            The people said aviation investigators are exploring the possibility that someone on the plane may have intentionally disabled two other automated communication systems in an attempt to avoid detection. One system is the transponders, which transmit to ground radar stations information on the plane's identity, location and altitude, and another system that collects and transmits data about several of the plane's key systems.

            The widebody jet was scheduled to fly overnight to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur in the predawn hours of March 8. Its transponders last communicated with Malaysian civilian radar about an hour after takeoff.
            Related

            After the plane dropped off civilian radar screens, two people said, the satellite link operated in a kind of standby mode for several hours and sought to establish contact with a satellite or satellites. These transmissions didn't include data about any of the plane's critical systems, they said, but the periodic contacts indicate to investigators that the plane was still intact and believed to be flying at least a significant portion of that time. All of the people said the transmissions included detailed information about the plane's location, speed and bearing.

            The transmissions, one person said, were comparable to the plane "saying I'm here, I'm ready to send data."

            The uncertainty about where the plane was headed, and why it apparently continued flying so long without working transponders and other communication links, has raised theories among investigators that the aircraft may have been commandeered for reasons that remain unclear to U.S. authorities.

            At one briefing, according to one of the people, officials were told that investigators are actively pursuing the notion that the plane was diverted "with the intention of using it later for another purpose."


            As authorities scramble to analyze and understand all of the transmissions from the missing 777, the situation continues to change rapidly. Some people briefed on the issue initially described the transmissions as information that had been relayed from onboard monitoring systems embedded in the two Rolls-Royce PLC Trent 800 engines, not the idling satellite communications system.

            Write to Andy Pasztor at [email protected] and Jon Ostrower at [email protected]

            Comment


            • This is looking more like a hijacking the longer this plays out.

              My worry is that due to the lack of anyone taking responsibility that the hijacking itself wasn't the terrorist attack, merely the means to acquire the tool.

              Let's hope to god I'm wrong but if true it would have to be state sponsored and the target would be something big.
              The best part of repentance is the sin

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              • Originally posted by citanon View Post
                Now we know why the Malaysians did not know about the Satellite pings from the engine: they didn't buy the data plan. :slap:

                Satellite Data Reveal Route of Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 - WSJ.com
                There are a couple of really important implications here.

                A: they better make damn sure exactly how much fuel that plane had on takeoff and that it could not have made it to potential landing site in, for example, Somalia. If it could, that opens a huge can of worms from hostages to this plane being refueled and used in a 9-11 type attack.

                B: if the plane remained in control but went down in the Indian ocean, then no one knows how it hit the ocean. That means there could be survivors. The chances of those survivors pulling through diminishes with every hour.

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                • Originally posted by chakos View Post
                  This is looking more like a hijacking the longer this plays out.

                  My worry is that due to the lack of anyone taking responsibility that the hijacking itself wasn't the terrorist attack, merely the means to acquire the tool.

                  Let's hope to god I'm wrong but if true it would have to be state sponsored and the target would be something big.
                  Yep my thoughts exactly. But here's the missing piece: where could they have landed? Could they have gone to Yemen or Somalia? How much fuel did it really have? And they cannot go by the records, they need to interrogate that ground crew that prepped it for flight.

                  However I bet our intelligence guys are way ahead on investigating this. There were probably a lot of satellites and UAVs looking over potential landing sites in the 24 hours before the info went public.... Or I hope that's the case.

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                  • Bent pilot/s?
                    The best part of repentance is the sin

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                    • Originally posted by chakos View Post
                      Bent pilot/s?
                      Who else would have the expertise?

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                      • Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                        Such a large search party and they still can't find the plane.

                        The number of assets are wrong. Eg for Singapore right off the bat there are TWO helicopters assisting.
                        And I wonder what's the difference between "Aircraft" and "Fixed-wing aircraft".

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                        • Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                          Sorry for not being more clear. I was thinking on the lines that the plane has been hijacked and landed somewhere. i'm basing this on the fact that the transponder has been deliberately switched off.
                          Understood, however given all the conflicting information currently being circulated (and Malaysian Airlines are going to cop hell for this long term) the most likely scenarios sadly remain in no particular order:

                          - catastrophic mechanical failure;
                          - a terrorist bombing (which I guess is a sub class of point one)
                          - air crew suicide
                          If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                          • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                            - air crew suicide
                            This is a scary thought. Its the feeling I get every once in a month ..... very still, very helpless, life totally in the hands of another man.

                            Attached Files

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                            • US officials now claim the transponder and sat com shut down separately (indicative of deliberate act) and the plane likely crashed in Indian Ocean. News source: ABC, CNN, FOX.
                              All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                              -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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                              • I was not aware the transponders could be switched off , sooooooo looking more like hi,jack of some sort , still , its very strange , who thinks intel is withholding info ?

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