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  • Come on out and play!

    The talk about the Spruances got me thinking about a few things.

    Get to the point first and then into the background. At some colleges, I've seen them do away with the required PE courses. Is that right, is that a good idea? In the Navy, someone, something once told me that officers should know about sports so they can arrange a game for their troops. Even if they aren't arranging a game or in the military, is the ability, the knowledge of physical activity necessary for good team work?

    Now, the background.

    I look at this or that reunion page where they are saying it was a great ship, great duty, and I wonder how can they say that when there was a misuse of manpower such as having all E-3 and below, rated or not, assigned to deck for months, Captains punishing their crews by taking them in sight of a liberty port then going out for more training, keeping all security teams on board for inspections regardless of Christmas leave periods, and so forth. Maybe there was something in the koolaid on the mess decks.

    Don't get me wrong. I understand the need for readiness, that if you have to keep the entire crew on board to ensure that the ship works for the next job, you do. I can understand the need.....but not the apparent love for "those days".

    But then I look at the pictures on those pages where they were out playing ball together and I wonder maybe that is the reason that I don't understand because my team sports activities were left behind by the time I left high school. In college and afterwards, I did races and judo tournaments but as the lone representative of my school.

    So is not requiring people to do PE courses, team or individual, (in a class, regardless of the sport, there is some comraderie) really such a great idea?

  • #2
    Well, I don't know what your history with the Navy is, but I would guess you had some bad experiences. I don't recall any personal experiences anyway where a ship's captain would come close to a port and then leave as a punishment to the crew. I can think of a couple of instances where they threatened to curtail liberty for some widespread issues with the crew, but never going to within sight of a port then leaving. Typically, if there are widespread discipline problems with a crew, there is some sort of leadership issue and eventually that gets out and someone (CO) gets canned. People talk and you can usually tell a poorly run ship pretty quickly.
    As far as non-rates working on the deck division, on destroyers this is normal and logical. Maintenance of a ship against corrosion is a critical and daily task. You are living on a metal box floating in saltwater- from the moment it is exposed to the elements corrosion starts. A ship needs to be scraped, cleaned and painted regularly- it's not just for Admiral's inspections or busy work.(although sometimes it is) Look at any museum ship or mothballed ship where this maint is not conducted regularly and you see how quickly the rust and corrosion sets in. This is man power intensive and most everybody is involved in it. Non-rates are the biggest source of uncommitted manpower on a ship. They cannot fix or operate complex equipment, but a swab, paint brush, needle gun or wire wheel do not require significant training. So they do it. Even as a first class, I scraped and painted my spaces with the rest of my work group. E3's that are rated do not go to deck division, but do take their turn mess cranking. It has to be done and the new guys/gals always get the crappy jobs- this is no different than any work place civilian or military and it provides great incentive to work to gain advancement.
    As for the sports- any good manager, civilian or military, should use team building fun activities to help build cohesiveness in a work group/crew/unit. This could be sports, maybe a trip or activity like rafting, paintball, etc. Other morale building things like steel beach picnics, skeet shooting, crossing the line ceremonies are all useful too. Lots of good reasons to have some semi-organized sports though- fitness, fun, camaraderie.
    One last point- as you get older and further out from your military service you tend to remember the good times more than the bad times anyway- I've seen the trend on ship's pages where the more recently separated seem to have more negative things to say than the older crew members. Maybe its an accurate view of how things are or maybe its my theory of time erasing the more negative memories- I really can't say. Anyway, who wants to remember that time when you got yelled at for breaking something or being late for muster when you can remember that time with the 2 girls at that beach.....
    Last edited by DonBelt; 06 Mar 14,, 15:06.

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    • #3
      Let's see if I remember the aborted liberty port one as it was told to me. They came into the liberty port and dropped anchor. The Captain came over the 1MC and said he was not happy with the level of readiness so for the next three days, they were going to be out at sea training. Up Anchor. According to the story teller, way back then, those down in the engineering just stared as the bridge's engine orders came up.

      With the ship and 1st Division, divisions did not see their rated seamen for 6 months. They spent 3 months on mess decks and 3 months in 1st Division. So, yes, an EWSN was busy working for 3 months for the First Lieutenant. Further, ship preservation is one thing, having the ship totally painted within 24 hours of entering port is another. Paint over anything, just have that ship looking gray. As things go, I respected that Captain, he certainly knew how to fight a ship.....but his use of manpower was something else.

      You are right, people do talk, otherwise, I wouldn't know this stuff to begin with. As to why people were not canned, I would say that in that pre Internet era, unless one did stuff that drew attention, others did not want to eliminate people that would require a lot of work to do so. But that's just a guess of way back then.

      As far as looking back.....it's been almost 25 years for me.....and, oh yes, I still remember the bad, perhaps vividly.

      BUT..........then again, maybe it's just me. I do tend to remember forever.

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      • #4
        Chip first, then paint! Like I said- there are always those who will go for looking ship shape rather than being ship shape. Sets a bad example and makes things worse in the long run. But going to a port and anchoring, then telling people no liberty because of their performance- that's pretty low. Something's gotta give in an environment like that.

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        • #5
          You know, I just finished chatting with some folks on who were on my old ship from mid to late 90's and they described conditions similar to what you did. Maybe I was lucky getting out when I did.

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          • #6
            Frankly, none of the bad stuff related above rang true with me. Yeah, non-rated personnel did pay their dues. Have done since Christ was a messcook. Nothing new there. But the liberty port stuff? Never heard of it. My own personal requirement when in a command position was that I didn't much care about scraping and painting above and beyond the call of duty. Never painted a ship just to make some two-star happy. I did however require a clean ship. Fresh paint and "clean" are not even remotely the same things. It's not hard to do if people just take care of the area assigned to them on the Watch, Quarter and Station Bill. Funny, but those things have been around forever, and guess what? They actually work . . . if you actually use them. Far too often I'd walk aboard some ship and just eyeball one posted and you could tell it was a piece of shit.

            When I was a member of the CINCPACFLT PEB, you could tell a ship that was going to blow an exam away on the walk from the quarterdeck to the wardroom for the in brief. Why? Because they barely noticed you. You were at most a speed bump for a well run organization. The ship, and it's quarterdeck watch standers were clean and orderly, and knew their jobs. Not surprisingly, when we got down to the engineering spaces, the same traits applied. Some other ships though? Man, you knew it was going to be a long three days within 30 seconds of saying, "Request permission to come aboard, Sir!" The looked like shit, and acted like shit, and not surprisingly, they performed like shit. So, guess what, "Shit happens."

            That all starts with the CO. If he or she is good, it shows. If not, you can have the greatest crew in the world, and a bad CO will ruin them. They just will. Like I said, "Shit happens."
            Last edited by desertswo; 01 Apr 14,, 14:30.

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            • #7
              I guess I was so fortunate at times to find the Blighs.

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              • #8
                I have got to agree with the good Capt.

                SOunds like a sea story that got a bit of embelishment.

                There are to many things that take place for a port call to be scheduled, and they are scheduled months in advance, for the Capt of a ship to decide on his own to pull out.

                There are contracted services that are already paid for. Often there are new shipmates waiting in the port to come aboard. Shipmates that are rotating back to the States. Tech reps, parts that are waiting at the dock. ANd that's just some of the internal stuff.

                Docking?anchoring fees have been paid. Water taxi services and various promises made to the local government.

                A Commander in the Med that decided to "skip" a port call would soon find himself standing in front of Cdr 6th Fleet. And 3 stars want really good reasons. Not "I wasn't happy with the readiness of my ship"
                Cause that would just beg a whole slew of follow on questions about why he couldn't get his crew up to par.

                That being said, I was on one float where as we were headed to a port, turned around and left in a hurry. It was Greece in late Early Jan 1996.

                With a good reason. We were headed to Souda Bay. The Greeks and Turkey were about to go to war over some little island (Imia?) and both had dispatched their Navies to "Settle the Matter".
                6th Fleet wanted us no where near the area.

                And that was the only time this Jarhead saw something like that. A Jarhead that, BTW, sports a 7th award on his SSDR. + 4 NATO/North Sea cruises

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                • #9
                  Well, okay.

                  Unless I can confirmation, I'll just let it be.

                  Pity I can't ask someone from that period but keeping up with military links has never particularly been a fav of mine. Some times were fun, some were absolutely miserable, and if anyone from back then remembers me at all, I'm sure any stories with me in them are not going to be comfortable to me.

                  And for them to find out what I do now.............................

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