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Tenn. Volkswagen Vote Major Setback for UAW

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  • #16
    Originally posted by chakos View Post
    $19.50 per hour is considered excellent pay and benefits in the states?

    Christ that's $2 per hour above our bare minimum wage and well below the award for production line workers.
    No its not. There has ben a huge shift from $20.00 plus jobs to just above min wage jobs as our manufacturing base crumbled and many jobs were replaced by retail so relatively speaking $19.50 is good for the southern states. Thats not a living wage in other Parts of the country.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      Let me see if I follow what you guys say here.

      If I work the same job within the same employer I would get a higher pay if I am with the union?
      We didn't have this in the best years of socialism.

      Moreover, my father was not a member of the Communist Party. When one day he found out they were charging membership fees from his paychecks, he got his money back without being laid off or being bullied.
      Strength in numbers and having a contract is what gives most union members an advantage. When the union and a company negotiates a contract the union represents hundreds if not tens of thousands of workers. Without its just you and the boss. So paying dues gives back a much better paycheck and benefits the other guys usually are not getting. Also the union negotiated contract is only the Minimum. You are still free to personally negotiate more than the contract per your job skills.
      Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Julie View Post
        Please note that the minimum wage here in the US is I believe $7.25, in which Obama just signed an Order requiring Federal Contract workers to receive a minium of $10.00/hr. I own a small business, and my starting wage is $12.00/hr. with no experience.

        The $19.50/hr. at the VW plant is an average base pay wage.
        No kidding especially if you take the UAW wage of say 25 years ago and extrapolate it out to today. Then the $19.50 looks like a big pay cut meanwhile all other prices surge ahead such as water, power, gas, taxes, food among a few. They once talked about the dumbing down of America because of educational issues. Well this is the dumbing down of the American economy. Less pay means less consumer spending of things outside of those six items I mentioned. I personally see it all the time as people put off needed care because of the lack of money especially those in the lower middle income range. I see no joy in bringing down our economic lifestyle to the level of other nations on the way up. Large socioeconomic upheavals are never pleasant especially when you talk about takeaways compared to the past like my parents.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by astralis View Post
          julie, sure...but that still doesn't get at why you take Corker's word over a VW executive when the subject is VW business strategy. especially when VW has no incentive to lie about it.
          You must have not read those documents I gave a link to.

          VW situated in the South because of the incentives, low taxes, and NO unions. The UAW attempted to organized those workers in Tennessee OUTSIDE of the plant, initially, but it wasn't working. THAT is when the UAW contacted VW and negotiated a "Neutral Agreement" which THEN allowed UAW members inside the plant to organize the workers.

          The workers at the VW plant do not have any higher base pay wages than in Detroit. They have excellent working conditions, and a great relationship with their company. The UAW said they could not guarantee the workers more pay and benefits that they were getting now. Of course not, the Neutral Agreement caps their wages !!! This is what the anti-union workers were screaming about. Why get a union? To pay them dues to do what? Drive a wedge between us and our employer that we do not have a problem with at the time?

          Come on....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
            No kidding especially if you take the UAW wage of say 25 years ago and extrapolate it out to today. Then the $19.50 looks like a big pay cut meanwhile all other prices surge ahead such as water, power, gas, taxes, food among a few. They once talked about the dumbing down of America because of educational issues. Well this is the dumbing down of the American economy. Less pay means less consumer spending of things outside of those six items I mentioned. I personally see it all the time as people put off needed care because of the lack of money especially those in the lower middle income range. I see no joy in bringing down our economic lifestyle to the level of other nations on the way up. Large socioeconomic upheavals are never pleasant especially when you talk about takeaways compared to the past like my parents.
            You live in California, right? Your cost of living is sky-high compared to where I am. My state tax is .06%. What is yours? I pay $15-16.00 per hour for experience. Lead men get paid 50% of the net job because they make more money that way, sometimes it averages to $20-$25.00/hour depending how long it takes them, but they well earn it and deserve it.

            My workers wear my company shirts and represent my company. I show them the numbers and negotiate each and every job with them. The last thing I would want is for a union coming in being a mediator and a divider between me and my men. That would cause problems.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bonehead View Post
              Strength in numbers and having a contract is what gives most union members an advantage. When the union and a company negotiates a contract the union represents hundreds if not tens of thousands of workers. Without its just you and the boss. So paying dues gives back a much better paycheck and benefits the other guys usually are not getting. Also the union negotiated contract is only the Minimum. You are still free to personally negotiate more than the contract per your job skills.
              I understand free market and all that, but if in my company I pay different salaries to two different people doing the same job, I am in trouble.
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                I understand free market and all that, but if in my company I pay different salaries to two different people doing the same job, I am in trouble.
                What about someone who has worked at the company 7 years making x amount of dollars, then a just-hire comes in starting at the same rate of pay as the one that has been working there 7 years, earning raises?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Julie View Post
                  What about someone who has worked at the company 7 years making x amount of dollars, then a just-hire comes in starting at the same rate of pay as the one that has been working there 7 years, earning raises?
                  We have it all sorted by law, for each year you get a % raise. But the base is the same.

                  Essentially if they do the same job and have same productivity, the pay should be the same. At least the base. You can award loyalty, but not slacking.
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Julie View Post
                    You live in California, right? Your cost of living is sky-high compared to where I am. My state tax is .06%. What is yours?
                    Yeah, second only to Hawai'i; our state tax is around 7.625%, depending upon what legislation is enacted at any given time.
                    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by chakos View Post
                      $19.50 per hour is considered excellent pay and benefits in the states?

                      Christ that's $2 per hour above our bare minimum wage and well below the award for production line workers.
                      Didn't Holden and Toyota both recently announce they were ceasing production there?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                        I understand free market and all that, but if in my company I pay different salaries to two different people doing the same job, I am in trouble.
                        That is very common in the business sector. You can have a whole floor full of office workers and they all could get paid different rates. Not everyone is good at storming into the boss's office and demanding a raise and a retirement.
                        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Julie View Post
                          My workers wear my company shirts and represent my company. I show them the numbers and negotiate each and every job with them. The last thing I would want is for a union coming in being a mediator and a divider between me and my men. That would cause problems.
                          Many unions are not dividers. Say for instance you have 50 employees. Do you really want to have that conversation 50 times a year or once every few years? Secondly when someone goes to the boss to ask for a raise and gets berated by the boss or lied to, what does that do to the employer/employer relationship? Having a contract negotiated by a third party eliminates a lot of animosity. Honestly, a union isn't needed in the few places where management/labor relations are good but for each one of those there are dozens of places where labor is being taken advantage of.
                          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                            That is very common in the business sector. You can have a whole floor full of office workers and they all could get paid different rates. Not everyone is good at storming into the boss's office and demanding a raise and a retirement.
                            Why should I pay someone more if the other guys is doing the same job for less?
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                              Why should I pay someone more if the other guys is doing the same job for less?
                              Often times it is the other way around. Those that get paid less should be getting more but are too lazy/scared/ignorant to ask for it and the boss/owner isn't going to volunteer anything because what he doesn't pay in wages he gets to keep for himself. The old divide and conquer ploy. Management uses it all the time. They say things like "work harder than the other guy and you get a bonus". Next thing you know employees are volunteering to work on the weekends just to get a leg up on the guy across the hall.

                              Illegals are willing to work for less and employers are more than happy to accommodate. Sometimes doing the same job doesn't tell the whole story. You also have to do the job well. Say you are erecting a 10 story building. Do you want it hacked up or do you want everything to look like a professional did it and pay less in maintenance and utility bills down the road. You have to look at total value instead of lowest bid. Many companies from all sectors make the mistake of going cheap but they forget that those cheap employees are the face of the company and when they end up making mistakes which makes the whole company look bad and costs customers/money in the long run.
                              Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                                Often times it is the other way around. Those that get paid less should be getting more but are too lazy/scared/ignorant to ask for it and the boss/owner isn't going to volunteer anything because what he doesn't pay in wages he gets to keep for himself. The old divide and conquer ploy. Management uses it all the time. They say things like "work harder than the other guy and you get a bonus". Next thing you know employees are volunteering to work on the weekends just to get a leg up on the guy across the hall.
                                Yep because we all know how someone working 60 hours a week contributes a lot to the company. :ironic:

                                Illegals are willing to work for less and employers are more than happy to accommodate. Sometimes doing the same job doesn't tell the whole story. You also have to do the job well. Say you are erecting a 10 story building. Do you want it hacked up or do you want everything to look like a professional did it and pay less in maintenance and utility bills down the road. You have to look at total value instead of lowest bid. Many companies from all sectors make the mistake of going cheap but they forget that those cheap employees are the face of the company and when they end up making mistakes which makes the whole company look bad and costs customers/money in the long run.
                                Illegals pose a risk if you get caught hiring them. At least here. Not only illegals, but any unregistered worker.

                                WRT the rest of what you said, I emphasized "same work". The employer should have metrics to measure the job well done and award the workers according to it.

                                Sure I would pay more to the more productive worker, but would also discourage them to work more then 44 hours a week. I would want them to stay and contribute to the company, not to the doctors.
                                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                                Comment

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