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  • #31
    Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
    - The Calcutta government (Mamata Bannerjee) defends police actions and slams the negative coverage as a political conspiracy
    This part needs a little background I'm afraid. This Chief Minister of West Bengal is an absolutely paranoid lady who sees maoist assassins under every table and has a habit of loudly shouting "Conspiracy!!" in front of the press every few days. After this, I would have been surprised if she hadn't termed this a "conspiracy" to malign her government.

    Unfortunately, the great state of West Bengal hasn't thrown up any other political options in the state besides the Communist nutcases and this lunatic.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
      Buddha, It seems apparent there is already a MAJOR trust issue between parents like yourself and the way these situations are being treated. The girls it seems are being treated like second class citizens.
      I did not understand this bit Dreadnought. How are parents like myself (I'm guessing you mean parents of daughters?) to blame or are involved in the problem?

      I wouldnt say that giving them a gun to carry will indeed fix the problem, but when some important persons son is shot for raping a girl or being a part of that "gang" then perhaps a more focused light will be shown upon this problem and a solution can be found.

      Until then I say fight fire with fire, level the playing field. Atleast for their own protection.
      I believe guns (in society) are like nukes (in the world). Sooner or later everyone in going to want to/be forced to have them. And then the shit is really going to hit the fan. I prefer India as it is for now. In terms of gun ownership and armed populace.

      You need not use lethal force, rubber bullets hurt like hell. And they leave nice welts. Easy to identify your attacker.
      Its a slippery slope from rubber to metal jacketed bullets. Girls in cities here are begining to carry pepper spray, either available online or in select department stores. Soon maybe those taser things will come in as well. I might pick up a couple the next time I'm in Singapore (not difficult to pick up there).

      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      I am more intrigued on why and how the males come to the idea of a gang rape. Police not being able to cope (for now) with this is not causation. Sure it encourages some of them, but there is more to it. Is this new phenomena in India? Or even global?
      Frustration, poverty, migrants living away from families for long periods of time (no sex), alcohol/drug binges preceding, all the way to rich/political kids cruising the streets in daddy's car/SUV looking for fresh prey.

      Originally posted by antimony View Post
      Lets carry the gun discussion somewhere else, in deference to the mods.
      Sure. I did not know this was a hot button topic which had been discussed here before.

      Regarding the topic, apart from the general problem of raising the profile of girls, I believe giving girls the tools to take care of themselves will also mitigate the problem.

      I will not always be around for my daughters, but my only hope is that if any SOB decides to do them harm, then he finds himself swiftly bobbitized.
      Learning self defense, learning how to use common items (like pens, heels, etc.), pepper spray/mace. This is what is common here and what I plan for my daughters. That and good parenting, using your head and brains, being always self aware and never overly trusting, being in groups and not going to stupid places at stupid times, and using common sense. Guns are not the answer to rape. Because right now we have girls geting raped. Tomorrow you will have girls getting shot.
      Last edited by sated buddha; 07 Jan 14,, 08:57.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Doktor View Post
        I am more intrigued on why and how the males come to the idea of a gang rape.
        Some sort of twisted "Safety in Numbers" line of thinking I guess. They are all sickos, but being in a group emboldens them to do stuff they normally wouldn't for fear of retribution.

        Police not being able to cope (for now) with this is not causation. Sure it encourages some of them, but there is more to it. Is this new phenomena in India? Or even global?
        It is certainly not new in India. But the increasing spread of both mainstream and social media tends to provide much greater publicity to such shocking crimes than earlier possible. After the horrible rape-murder in Delhi, this issue has been on the forefront for a while and cases where the state authorities are clearly at fault in particular give rise to even more anger.

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        • #34
          Two suspects thus far - Ratan Sil and Minta Sil - have been charged with rape and murder. They were landlords of the family and are said to have connections to the West Bengal TMC Government. Four others involved in the two gang-rapes of the girl are in custody.
          sigpic

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          • #35
            Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
            Learning self defense, learning how to use common items (like pens, heels, etc.), pepper spray/mace. This is what is common here and what I plan for my daughters. That and good parenting, using your head and brains, being always self aware and never overly trusting, being in groups and not going to stupid places at stupid times, and using common sense. Guns are not the answer to rape. Because right now we have girls geting raped. Tomorrow you will have girls getting shot.
            What you are describing is a fight, not self defence. In self defence, there is only one mindset. Kill or be killed.

            This little girl is dead because she did not kill her attackers.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              What you are describing is a fight, not self defence. In self defence, there is only one mindset. Kill or be killed.

              This little girl is dead because she did not kill her attackers.
              Col,

              Are you saying that if one tries to rape a girl she better kill him, then disable him and get away? Why? Fear from another attack?
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                What you are describing is a fight, not self defence. In self defence, there is only one mindset. Kill or be killed.

                This little girl is dead because she did not kill her attackers.
                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                Col,

                Are you saying that if one tries to rape a girl she better kill him, then disable him and get away? Why? Fear from another attack?
                Personally as a father I would go with the Colonel on this. My concern is that were the floodgates to open, and one thing leading to another they will eventually, then there are greater chances of goons/rich brats/politicians/godmen/other misc scum of the earth having guns compared to our girls and women having them. And then eventually everyone having them. And then we become a gun toting society. And fear that the next guy you vent on is going to draw a gun and shoot you dead. If you don't shoot him dead first. I'm sorry if this is veering back to the guns argument, but the discussion is evolving along those lines and I am responding accordingly. As other countries have shown, both the civilized ones as well as the lawless ones, there is simply no way to ensure only the good guys have guns.

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                • #38
                  The girl came from a poor family who could not have afforded to buy a gun even if they had been allowed to. We should keep this in mind when talking about importing the gun-culture of the US into India. Everybody can afford guns in the US. Most people in India have trouble arranging for three square meals a day.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                    The girl came from a poor family who could not have afforded to buy a gun even if they had been allowed to. We should keep this in mind when talking about importing the gun-culture of the US into India. Everybody can afford guns in the US. Most people in India have trouble arranging for three square meals a day.
                    Good point. This is the "access" I was talking about in a previous post. Its all about access and afordability, and less about legislation and enforcement. When you get down to it, gun culture is about pure economics. We have a country next door when you can get really high tech guns, or really sophisticated copies, at a pittance. There's a prime example.

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                    • #40
                      I did not understand this bit Dreadnought. How are parents like myself (I'm guessing you mean parents of daughters?) to blame or are involved in the problem?

                      What I implied is that there seems to be serious mistrust between parents and state/ political officials that can implement stiffer penalties if they chose too. It just seems they are not doing enough to protect the female population. The parents (like yourself) are no doubt outraged by this and by good nature do not trust them to do enough to protect the females any time soon.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                        Col,

                        Are you saying that if one tries to rape a girl she better kill him, then disable him and get away? Why? Fear from another attack?
                        I said the mindset. You may or may not kill the attacker but you better be willing to kill the attacker because he's may or may not let kill you after he's done the deed ... but you don't know that.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                          Personally as a father I would go with the Colonel on this. My concern is that were the floodgates to open, and one thing leading to another they will eventually, then there are greater chances of goons/rich brats/politicians/godmen/other misc scum of the earth having guns compared to our girls and women having them. And then eventually everyone having them. And then we become a gun toting society. And fear that the next guy you vent on is going to draw a gun and shoot you dead. If you don't shoot him dead first. I'm sorry if this is veering back to the guns argument, but the discussion is evolving along those lines and I am responding accordingly. As other countries have shown, both the civilized ones as well as the lawless ones, there is simply no way to ensure only the good guys have guns.
                          I'm not talking guns. I'm talking mindset. If you're not willing to kill your attacker, then open your legs and scream with pleasure and hope to hell that he enjoys himself enough to want to come back for more instead of killing a lousy laid.

                          No, there is no way to ensure only the good guys have guns but there is a way to ensure that the good guys will fight back with lethal force.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                            I did not understand this bit Dreadnought. How are parents like myself (I'm guessing you mean parents of daughters?) to blame or are involved in the problem?

                            What I implied is that there seems to be serious mistrust between parents and state/ political officials that can implement stiffer penalties if they chose too. It just seems they are not doing enough to protect the female population. The parents (like yourself) are no doubt outraged by this and by good nature do not trust them to do enough to protect the females any time soon.
                            The parents don't really come into the picture here. It would be no different if the girl had been an adult. This is basically a case of the police not doing their f*ckin jobs unless they are pilloried in the media and left with no choice. And it's not just rape, the police have f*cked up the prosecution of many crimes from murder to terrorism because of incompetence, meddling from their political masters or sheer stupidity. In rape cases, there is an added "blame the victim" dimension in play which is a result of a messed up mindset that can't possibly be limited to the cops alone. The cops are after all recruited from the general public.

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                            • #44
                              As a father, I try to instill in my own daughter the mindset that she may take whatever actions she needs to in order to be safe. I don't instill a trust of the police or the idea of a "knight in shining armor" to save her, and try to steer her away from the fairy tales where someone saves the princess. I tell her, often, that the "golden rule" works both ways - so if someone tries to hurt her, they want to be hurt themselves. A proper response to bullies is a punch in the nose, and I don't give a flying f*** at a rolling doughnut what her teacher says.

                              She's 5. And she isn't picked on, or afraid.

                              Guns will come later - right now she has her mind, her OWN mind, something that parents, especially fathers, need to make sure their daughters possess.
                              "Bother", said Poo, chambering another round.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                                Are you saying that if one tries to rape a girl she better kill him, then disable him and get away? Why? Fear from another attack?
                                Sexual assault is a violent physical assault on an individual - why shouldn't the victim treat it as a potentially life threatening assault and act to kill the assailant?
                                Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                                https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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