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  • #31
    You know, if I was still a bachelor, I wouldn't mind an arrangement where you stayed on the ship, were fed, got some walking around money in return for doing maint on the ship and helping with the tours and interpretation.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by NavyDoc View Post
      You are heading in the direction of one of my ideas!
      On those ships that are big enough there should be berthing, head and mess areas set aside to house homeless vets. In exchange for their quarters they maintain and repair the ship. Plus, those that are Navy vetscan also act as docents. This idea would be particularly appropriate for the big ones, carriers! A heavy cruiser can also work!
      Devil's Advocate here.

      How well were those ships cleaned to get rid of their asbestos and other such material?

      Now we might want to think that since they are open to visitors, they were cleaned wonderfully...........but perhaps the standards between those just visiting the ship and those who might be living on it are far, far different.

      So, if so.........in the quest to "force" people to live on the ship so to have cheap labor, is one walking themselves into a class action lawsuit?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by dundonrl View Post
        how about the millions of people that are on welfare.. your welfare payment cost is the grunt work of keeping ships like the Salem, Missouri, New Jersey, Alabama, Texas etc in good looking shape.. (if you live in the area) here's some sand paper and paint.. get busy..
        Why not have them come and work for me. Or any other business owner. Except for a few of those ships, Alabama, Texas and North Carolina , all those museum ships belong to private corporations. Why should tax dollars be spent to maintain private property?

        I know that at least 2 of the ones owned by their respective state are self supporting. The Alabama and North Carolina. No tax monies go to support or upkeep them.
        Last edited by Gun Grape; 04 Feb 14,, 06:41.

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        • #34
          It's not like they're someones private yacht or car collection they're museums. Theyre not there to just make money (although some of the caretakers make WAYYYY to much imho) theyre there to preserve history and teach.
          RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

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          • #35
            USS Salem Museum Status | New England Region (011/013)

            Nice article
            RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Tamara View Post
              Devil's Advocate here.

              How well were those ships cleaned to get rid of their asbestos and other such material?

              Now we might want to think that since they are open to visitors, they were cleaned wonderfully...........but perhaps the standards between those just visiting the ship and those who might be living on it are far, far different.

              So, if so.........in the quest to "force" people to live on the ship so to have cheap labor, is one walking themselves into a class action lawsuit?
              Obviously one is going to find asbestos wherever there is a concentration on piping. On the other hand if the coverings are intact then there is no issue there. In some compartments the coverings may have been punctured or ripped and then need to be sealed. On the Hornet no compartment is opened up for any visitors until it has been EPA certified that there is no asbestos in the air. Compartments, where a few live on board happen to be the Junior Officer's quarters on O1 and the Hanger deck level up in front of Elevator 1. Minimal issues in that area of our ship.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tamara View Post
                Now we might want to think that since they are open to visitors, they were cleaned wonderfully...........but perhaps the standards between those just visiting the ship and those who might be living on it are far, far different.
                I know some of the docents/volunteers get to stay in the officer's staterooms when they stay on board on the weekends (and, I assume, during the week); I've seen them going in and out of the rooms, and even peeked into one of them during one of my overnight stays (it looked very lived-in). I'm sure tbmfan could give us more details.
                "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                  Obviously one is going to find asbestos wherever there is a concentration on piping. On the other hand if the coverings are intact then there is no issue there. In some compartments the coverings may have been punctured or ripped and then need to be sealed. On the Hornet no compartment is opened up for any visitors until it has been EPA certified that there is no asbestos in the air. Compartments, where a few live on board happen to be the Junior Officer's quarters on O1 and the Hanger deck level up in front of Elevator 1. Minimal issues in that area of our ship.
                  Don't forget that the old deck tile has asbestos in it. It's fairly "safe" if it's only chipped up, but if someone starts grinding on it, then the fibers become friable and dangerous.

                  Another thing, at LBNSY it was illegal to use compressed air to blow anything down inside the ship because of the "dust" it might stir up. If you guys are using compressed air to clean up the space after a day's work, you should at least know that you might be stirring up a problem. An asbestos fiber can remain airborne for up to 72 hours.

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                  • #39
                    The only place we use compressed air is either in the machine shop or Hanger 3 where aircraft restoration is done as the large compressor is in the tire shop back there. Obviously for tools only. In no other place is compressed air used on the ship. I use a little 1" paint brush to clear out corners and tight areas before vacuuming everything up. Tile has never been touched anywhere except once and a heat gun was used to remove it.

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                    • #40
                      Let us not loose sight of the fact that we are much smarter now-a-days! Well, most of us are!
                      Back in the day, when no one was aware of the hazards of some materials there were no procedures and no concerns of being cautious. Now that we are aware, there are many ways to prevent those particles from becoming a part of the environment that we don't want it in! Encapsulating in place is one way. When it needs to be removed it usually involves bringing in the pros. Most all museum ships have been made safe and that attention to those items is a constant process. Remember that most museum ships host overnight stays for youth groups like the Scouts and Sea Cadets!
                      There seems to be a lot more call these days to "throw the baby out with the contaminated bath water"!
                      Last edited by SlaterDoc; 05 Feb 14,, 00:14. Reason: I forgot a word! Yea I should proof read before posting!

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                      • #41
                        This will anger a bunch of us! Especially those involved with the historical fleet!

                        I have to vent! The more I read the angrier I get!

                        So, now Patriot's Point wants it's "volunteer" veteran crew on a schedule!!!
                        They have driven away some of their most committed!
                        from Facebook page of a former crew member!
                        For the last 7 years, I have volunteered at PATRIOTS POINT here in Charleston SC giving visitors tours of the USS CLAMAGORE SS 343, which was the second Sub I served on.
                        I would do this when work permitted due to the fact I work at nights and am gone most weekends running in honor of a fallen hero.
                        They now want all volunteers to commit to a schedule,which I can not do,so for the first time in my life,I have been FIRED as a volunteer.
                        What really angered me was in the E_MAIL sent out to volunteers was this statement,"VOLUNTEERING IS A PRIVILEGE,NOT A RIGHT" So,for the last 7 years,I had the PRIVILEGE of driving 30 min each way and spending my own money for fuel. I had the PRIVILEGE of doing jobs that they would have had to pay people to do, for free.
                        I will pack up the jackets and shirt they issued me, and return them,then give my last tours of the old 343,which they are going to sink as a reef soon Sunday.


                        I don't know where these idiots that are suppose to be "curators" of our historical treasures are at in their minds! But, they are certainly not what this particular museum needs!
                        No one thinks out of the box anymore!
                        The costs associated with prepping the sub and towing it out are ceratinly more than...say..trying something different? Since the biggest maintenance problem is because she is in the water...TAKE HER OUT! Contact some of the marine salvagers that worked in Louisiana after Katrina putting ships and barges back in the water (with the air bag rollers for example) to move her up on the shore!
                        Then the "volunteers" can repair the hull at an affordable pace while the sub is still open!


                        I for one intend to email them and the local media about such stupidity and incompetence!
                        Attached Files

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                        • #42
                          The Albacore in Portsmouth, NH is on land. They dug a short canal and series of coffer dams. Originally they were going to drag her out on a rail and cradle system like at some small ship yards, but her weight was too much. Being stuck they just built a successive series of coffer dams around her, moved her to the back of each one until she was in her final location, then they drained it. Perhaps the same thing could be done with the Clamagore? There seems to be room from what I can see on the Google satellite view, although I can't tell what condition the ground along the shoreline is in. Here is the Albacore's story: USS ALBACORE - AGSS 569 - Pioneering Research Vessel - Albacore Park - Portsmouth, NH

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                          • #43
                            Unreal! Im with you Doc it does't make any sense why they would basically alienate the people that are saving their asses! They'd go bankrupt FAST if they replaced volunteers with payroll employees. Patriots Point seems pretty pathetic with the way they seem to be running things lately. All these museums need diehard enthusiasts that know what theyre doing to run these amd most of them dont seem to have that.
                            RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

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                            • #44
                              I'll come with a slightly different perspective. On the Hornet we have Admin, Ship's paid crew, Security, Docents and Air/Ship restoration volunteers.

                              Security and Docents are both large groups. Security runs things themselves just like any military system. Top man, aides next on down to enlisted so to speak. They have their meetings and set forth operational procedures to be followed. Schedules are set and then filled each month. Daily duty is pretty much the same schedule of people while overnights and events are a different story. Those schedules are drawn up as needed and then open for filling as those are paid by the hour by the event. Yes, events pay for the Security needed.

                              Docents have a Docent Council. Once again, like Security, they set forth their procedures and schedule. Most volunteers show up on the same day all the time. So you may have a Wednesday crew, a Saturday crew and so forth. A Wednesday crew can be from 7-10 and Wednesday is usually a quiet day. Obviously Saturday and Sunday docents need to be there for those busy days. People missing a day here and there has never been an issue as must all docents are really good in keeping all in the loop. Of course, there are easy going docents and pain in the ass docents so good thing having the Council.

                              Air /Ship volunteers usually have set their days they are available. Air Group, I'm part of that, come down on Wednesday and Friday. Ship volunteers usually over the weekend with a large mass of them on Saturday. On my Wednesday I am the only ship person working on board. We have no set schedule because most all of us show up because of the internal drive to work on the ship. So people get sick, go on vacations and so forth but no big deal.

                              I was gone for 2 months when I told one of my Wednesday docents I was quitting because I had enough of other day docents not watching out for the Island. Didn't like my recommendations and the noise I might make on a day like Saturday. Saturday docents tend to be a couple of O6 guys who still think they are in the Navy. Airedales also. The Admin head of Air/Ship volunteers heard and went to the Docent Council telling them to get their guys in line. Protect the Island, close hatches, close portholes, round up visitors and don't complain about noise. If anybody gave me an issue then they could leave as he preferred having me over those docents who didn't fix anything with their own funds. Then I came back to a very happy group of Wednesday crew.

                              As for the example by Navy Doc I don't think telling the docent he is no longer needed but I understand there needing to be some sort of schedule for the weekend and being able to rely on it.
                              Last edited by tbm3fan; 11 Feb 14,, 00:59.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                                I was gone for 2 months when I told on of my Wednesday docents I was quitting because I had enough of other day docents not watching out for the Island. Didn't like my recommendations and the noise I might make on a day like Saturday. Saturday docents tend to be a couple of O6 guys who still think they are in the Navy. Airedales also. The Admin head of Air/Ship volunteers heard and went to the Docent Council telling them to get their guys in line. Protect the Island, close hatches, close portholes, round up visitors and don't complain about noise. If anybody gave me an issue then they could leave as he preferred having me over those docents who didn't fix anything with their own funds. Then I came back to a very happy group of Wednesday crew.
                                Glad to hear that worked out for the best tbm3fan!

                                Sounds like the volunteer for the Yorktown had no choice but to go when he could. I know thats how id have to be since i never work the same week twice.
                                RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

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