US/Chinese warships avoid collision

[Gun Grape]

Except two. The French CDG and the British QE II. But yeah, every other carrier is a freaking missile magnet.

Gonna disagree Sir. The QEII is nothing but a America Class with a ski Jump and 30 extra meters of length. The US and French are the only countries operating real aircraft carriers.

[Blademaster]

The Nimitz and her sister ships can also support the other ships in their respective battle groups thru unrepping and vert-repping, they carry extra fuel and supplies to accomplish this. Having nuclear reactors, they don't need to refuel (other than rcoh every 20 years or so) and the space saved allows for more aviation fuel, ordnance and other supplies. They can maintain their own aircraft on board and repair them, provide medical and dental services to the fleet and ashore areas, even administrative and disbursing services to deployed fleet units. The number of aircraft they carry outnumbers and outclasses anyone else and can be increased by 60%. Having cats they can operate heavier longer range aircraft, they operate multiple types to include in air refueling, awacs, electronic warfare. They can travel further and stay on station longer than any other nation's carriers. There is no way you can say a carrier is a carrier, just a flat deck for launching aircraft, all the same. And they're just the tail end of 90 years of continual carrier operation- generations of experience and experimentation and implementation. And Tmb3fan is correct, so this is all I will say.

I remember a long time ago somebody posted a nugget regarding the carrier and its capabilities. The story goes like this: A disaster happened in SE Asia and USN provided an aircraft carrier to provide relief. Somebody in the middle of a briefing room or something (i guess a french guy since french were not popular at that time) complained that US was being so warlike militant blah blah fill it with usual left wing stupid shit .... A Boeing or Lockheed engineer stood up and said that since the disaster happened, the local area has been without power and any means of providing clean water. The carrier was capable of producing this X amount of power and Y amount of water (something impressive) and that without such means, the local area would have not been able to survive the long days ahead. Pretty soon, everybody was quiet and that french guy (so they say) sat down without a peep.

I liked that story.

[Blademaster]

Gonna disagree Sir. The QEII is nothing but a America Class with a ski Jump and 30 extra meters of length. The US and French are the only countries operating real aircraft carriers.

Beat you to the extra punch.

[winton]

Because of everything I said. These carriers were designed to win wars. Not to launch airplanes.

the QE2 doesn't have catapults. Its going to have planes that won't be carrying their full load. I recall you saying that was a reason why the PLAN carrier was obsolete.

[winton]

Jesus Christ, nobody answer this question

I asked that cause I have reservations about the QE2. It seems I'm not alone.

[ace16807]

the QE2 doesn't have catapults. Its going to have planes that won't be carrying their full load. I recall you saying that was a reason why the PLAN carrier was obsolete.

CV-16 Liaoning is obsolete (read: antiquated) as an operation carrier due to the following reasons:

1: You have a hull that was designed as a aircraft cruiser. Thus you have what is essentially a conversion instead of a purpose-built platform. This is never a great foot to start on. Think of the Lexington Class carriers, except even worse. Lexingtons had the luxury of being converted while still being built. CV-16 was converted after the fact. The Kuznetsov class was originally intended to operate fixed-wing assets purely for an air superiority role and this wasn't its only primary task. It was also to serve as a cruiser in a fleet-defense role as well. It's not easy to switch this hybrid to a pure aircraft carrier and when you do, you're going to get inefficiencies in operating.

2: You have electronics etc that weren't designed for carriers/are untested until now.

3: You can't operate anything beside a J-15 or rotary wing aircraft. Most modern carriers can also operate things like C2/E2 equivalents. It is highly unlikely that CV-16 can operate even the lightest Y-7 variant.

[Officer of Engineers]

Gonna disagree Sir. The QEII is nothing but a America Class with a ski Jump and 30 extra meters of length. The US and French are the only countries operating real aircraft carriers.

I stand corrected.

[surfgun]

A Queen Elizabeth class carrier has twice the SHP of an America Class (she is pure electric drive that supplements it's power with her diesel generators to the power of her turbines) and displaces an additional 20,000 tons, much more flight deck area, automation, not to mention the very plush berthing areas. The QE, will also have stabilizers to increase its ability to operate aircraft in rougher sea states. (Please take note it is the QE and not QEII)

[chakos]

We can argue to and fro regarding the abilities (or not) vs a Nimitz class but at the end of the day the Liaoning is a training vessel regardless what the fanboys saying. Part of the training is not only learning to use a carrier as a carrier but also understanding the unwritten rules of how superpowers assets 'play' with each other.

I would rather they learn to play by the rules while they know they are in the inferior asset and by default be on their best behavior rather than wait for the next generation of carriers which would be closer to the Nimitz class in capability and could give the PLAN commanders the confidence to push the boundaries past what is acceptable.

This will continue until the new lines are drawn and the rules are understood, I just hope no one goes full retard beforehand and starts something that may spiral out of control.

[Gun Grape]

A Queen Elizabeth class carrier has twice the SHP of an America Class (she is pure electric drive that supplements it's power with her diesel generators to the power of her turbines) and displaces an additional 20,000 tons, much more flight deck area, automation, not to mention the very plush berthing areas. The QE, will also have stabilizers to increase its ability to operate aircraft in rougher sea states. (Please take note it is the QE and not QEII)

Both can embark/operate 24 fixed wing planes at a time (Harrier/F-35Bs) The wasp class has 9 spots for helo operations the QE has 6. That extra flight deck on the QE is ate up with the ski jump.

Neither can conduct launch and recovery ops of the fixed wing assets at the same time. Neither can embark fixed wing AEW. Plush berthing areas don't do a thing for cycling air sorties.

[Gun Grape]

We can argue to and fro regarding the abilities (or not) vs a Nimitz class but at the end of the day the Liaoning is a training vessel regardless what the fanboys saying. Part of the training is not only learning to use a carrier as a carrier but also understanding the unwritten rules of how superpowers assets 'play' with each other.

I hope they don't learn that. The US and the Soviets use to play chicken with each others ships. Cut in front of each other, bump each other. Maybe the Chinese can/will act more mature

[Officer of Engineers]

The British QEII doesn't have a catapult. It has ski ramps. I have been waiting for you to bring it up. By your argument, QEII is obsolete because it has ski ramps and can only launch half load even with its F-35s.

No, the F-35B is a STOVL, it's engines were designed to overcome non-catapult limitations though the non VL versions do carry heavier loads.

However, do recall earlier in this thread that these carriers were designed to win wars of which launching airplanes is but a small part of it. A QE BG will still dominate its battle space (except against NATO members).

If you say that it is because of F-35s it is modern, then by logic, INS Vicky won't be obsolete if it gets F-35s.

The F-35B will make it extremely more formidable but the question is can you afford the battle management system that can use the F-35B.

Even QEII has to rely on its own heli-AEWs to provde early warning and air recon.

Well, yes, and no. It relies on everything in the TF.

[Dreadnought]

I think this was more a case of lost in translation. The americans apparently didn't understand what "get lost" in chinese was and simply had to be shown.

However, I note that the US navy was calling it a routine freedom of navigation operation in lieu of actual spying. No doubt it was many months in the planning.

Really? And just how many encounters "at sea" between the US and the Soviet Navy was months in planning as well?

They were not.

Its called International waters for a reason and all Navy's as well as merchants have legitimate freedom of passage. The South China Sea is no different then the Black Sea or the Med or the Atlantic.

It doesnt belong to the Chinese no more then the Atlantic and Pacific belong to the Americas. They will sail it at the DOD's discretion or the Captains for training purposes.

And for those not experienced with this, The USN has and will continue routine patrol of all International waters as it has since WWII.

Outside of protecting the US and its interests, thats their daily job 24/7/365 along with mapping etc.

[Triple C]

I remember a long time ago somebody posted a nugget regarding the carrier and its capabilities. The story goes like this: A disaster happened in SE Asia and USN provided an aircraft carrier to provide relief. Somebody in the middle of a briefing room or something (i guess a french guy since french were not popular at that time) complained that US was being so warlike militant blah blah fill it with usual left wing stupid shit .... A Boeing or Lockheed engineer stood up and said that since the disaster happened, the local area has been without power and any means of providing clean water. The carrier was capable of producing this X amount of power and Y amount of water (something impressive) and that without such means, the local area would have not been able to survive the long days ahead. Pretty soon, everybody was quiet and that french guy (so they say) sat down without a peep.

I liked that story.

It has a new iteration in the aftermath of the typhoon disaster in Philippines. A carrier was there providing water, medical care, food, etc., iirc power also.

[Albany Rifles]

My interest does not lie in naval warfare so I think I should make that disclosure first. Secondly, my information regarding the PLAN comes from internet sources just like everybody else.

Don't be so quick to assume this is a correct statement.

Many of us spent time in uniform planning against confrontations with the USSR as well as the PLAN.

And just because someone was land forces does not mean they were not part of a joint staff at some point in their careers...and may still continue as consultants...or civil servants.

Alot of us oldtimers are more than 1 trick ponies.