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  • #46
    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
    Sonia Gandhi was no leader. She just wanted to enjoy power and the perks of it and was willing to whatever necessary to enjoy the fruits.
    I disagree. She has thrown her weight around when needed, tacitly tucked aside members from the old guard of the Congress and paved the way for her son as a successor. Sonia, unlike Rahul, is a leader and has played that role well. Only difference is that she has used her skills and energies to secure her family's position rather than for betterment of the country.
    Last edited by Tronic; 14 Dec 13,, 00:17.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      I disagree. She has thrown her weight around when needed, tacitly tucked aside members from the old guard of the Congress and paved the way for her son as a successor. Sonia, unlike Rahul, is a leader and has played that role well. Only difference is that she has used her skills and energies to secure her family's position rather than for betterment of the country.
      That is not leadership. Sonia Gandhi didn't get there by virtue of her leadership. She got there because she was an opportunist and capitalized on the Gandhi name. When Congress was at its lowest point, they turned to her last name and used her last name and her status as the wife of the assassinated Rajiv Gandhi to rally the great majority of the poverty stricken masses. If she was a leader, she would have been at the helm, not enjoying the perks without responsibility.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
        That is not leadership. Sonia Gandhi didn't get there by virtue of her leadership. She got there because she was an opportunist and capitalized on the Gandhi name. When Congress was at its lowest point, they turned to her last name and used her last name and her status as the wife of the assassinated Rajiv Gandhi to rally the great majority of the poverty stricken masses.
        Gandhi name can only take you so far. We often hear of MMS being Sonia's puppet. When was the last time you heard of Sonia being someone's puppet? Either the Congress party is filled with extremely selfless and loyal members, or she's an astute leader.

        If she was a leader, she would have been at the helm, not enjoying the perks without responsibility.
        She already tried becoming PM in '04, and you can recall what transpired after.
        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Tronic View Post
          Gandhi name can only take you so far. We often hear of MMS being Sonia's puppet. When was the last time you heard of Sonia being someone's puppet? Either the Congress party is filled with extremely selfless and loyal members, or she's an astute leader.
          The Congress is filled with fawning sycophants who will do anything told to them by the Gandhi family. How else do you explain seemingly smart young leaders like Sachin Pilot say on TV that Rahul Gandhi the prized buffoon, should be immediately named as the Congress' PM candidate? Or Salman Khurshid, our esteemed foreign minister saying she is the entire nation's mother.

          She already tried becoming PM in '04, and you can recall what transpired after.
          She could have easily become the PM. The only ones opposing her were in the opposition who could do little to actually stop her. No, she wanted all the power and none of the responsibility. After mismanaging the economy for 10 years through her NAC loonies and looting it side by side, she goes scot-free while MMS takes all the blame. She has the best job ever.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
            The Congress is filled with fawning sycophants who will do anything told to them by the Gandhi family. How else do you explain seemingly smart young leaders like Sachin Pilot say on TV that Rahul Gandhi the prized buffoon, should be immediately named as the Congress' PM candidate? Or Salman Khurshid, our esteemed foreign minister saying she is the entire nation's mother.
            Precisely my point. She is top boss in the Congress party. She won 2 general elections with what you refer to as 'fawning sycophants' and the 'prized buffoon'. An astute leader.

            She could have easily become the PM. The only ones opposing her were in the opposition who could do little to actually stop her. No, she wanted all the power and none of the responsibility. After mismanaging the economy for 10 years through her NAC loonies and looting it side by side, she goes scot-free while MMS takes all the blame. She has the best job ever.
            I agree that she could have become PM, yet by stepping down she robbed the opposition of their main rallying cry against her while still retaining power through MMS. To top it off, she got power without the accountability.
            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Tronic View Post
              Gandhi name can only take you so far. We often hear of MMS being Sonia's puppet. When was the last time you heard of Sonia being someone's puppet? Either the Congress party is filled with extremely selfless and loyal members, or she's an astute leader.

              She already tried becoming PM in '04, and you can recall what transpired after.
              Then you just admitted that she is not a leader. She has no portfolio, no ministry to speak of.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                Precisely my point. She is top boss in the Congress party. She won 2 general elections with what you refer to as 'fawning sycophants' and the 'prized buffoon'. An astute leader.
                She didn't do anything to earn their support. They supported her just because she was Rajiv's wife, and it wouldn't have mattered if she had been as stupid as her son. This should be obvious as they now fawn over her stupid son who thinks "poverty is a state of mind".

                I agree that she could have become PM, yet by stepping down she robbed the opposition of their main rallying cry against her while still retaining power through MMS. To top it off, she got power without the accountability.
                We have different definitions of the word "leader" then. A "leader" would never shirk his/her responsibility.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by antimony View Post
                  I am actually in favour of repealing 370, as I see no reason to give some states extra rights. However, are you telling me that BJP does not delve in communal shenanigans?
                  I'm telling you that attacking Article 370 is NOT a communal shenanigan.

                  As for actual communal shenanigans, every party in the country indulges in communal shenanigans. The Congress has gone so far as to amend the Constitution during one of their "communal shenanigans".
                  Last edited by Firestorm; 14 Dec 13,, 05:13.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                    She didn't do anything to earn their support. They supported her just because she was Rajiv's wife, and it wouldn't have mattered if she had been as stupid as her son. This should be obvious as they now fawn over her stupid son who thinks "poverty is a state of mind".


                    We have different definitions of the word "leader" then. A "leader" would never shirk his/her responsibility.
                    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                    Then you just admitted that she is not a leader. She has no portfolio, no ministry to speak of.
                    She's the President of the party in power.

                    Oxford dictionary defines a 'leader' as;

                    leader
                    Pronunciation: /ˈliːdə/
                    noun

                    1 the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country:


                    I'd say she fits the bill.

                    Unless you disagree that she is in command of the ruling party of India.
                    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                      That is not leadership. Sonia Gandhi didn't get there by virtue of her leadership. She got there because she was an opportunist and capitalized on the Gandhi name. When Congress was at its lowest point, they turned to her last name and used her last name and her status as the wife of the assassinated Rajiv Gandhi to rally the great majority of the poverty stricken masses. If she was a leader, she would have been at the helm, not enjoying the perks without responsibility.
                      She is the leader of congress and nobody is going to challenge her.

                      The congress party could not win elections without a gandhi at the helm. She was an unwilling participant, and then realised she could not get out of it if her children were to take over one day.

                      Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                      The Congress is filled with fawning sycophants who will do anything told to them by the Gandhi family. How else do you explain seemingly smart young leaders like Sachin Pilot say on TV that Rahul Gandhi the prized buffoon, should be immediately named as the Congress' PM candidate? Or Salman Khurshid, our esteemed foreign minister saying she is the entire nation's mother.
                      That's the iron control the gandhi's exercise over their party. Say anything untoward and your career is over.

                      If Modi does get control, this is what will happen in the BJP as well. They sorely need it at this point. Change of the old guard and a general election to win.

                      I don't care too much about Rahul, his sister on the other hand has promise. Something of the grand mother in her.

                      Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                      She could have easily become the PM. The only ones opposing her were in the opposition who could do little to actually stop her. No, she wanted all the power and none of the responsibility. After mismanaging the economy for 10 years through her NAC loonies and looting it side by side, she goes scot-free while MMS takes all the blame. She has the best job ever.
                      I don't have a good answer as to why she did not become PM. Maybe she did not think she could do the job and there were others better suited. Pulling the strings in the background suited her perfectly.
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Dec 13,, 23:12.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                        That is because you fell for the Congress and its cronies propaganda machine that Modi = RSS. He is not RSS. He is his own man. Sure he is a member of the RSS but RSS don't own him and neither Modi owns RSS. If you were to become PM of India, it doesn't mean you will blindly follow the Pope or whatever he says. That is what the English speaking media has to learn about card carrying RSS members or people who are sympathetic to RSS. The RSS members are not automatons blindly following the RSS ideology. If they were, they would never be elected in the first place.
                        Again, I am not a Congress media fan follower like you guys lap up Modi's propaganda.
                        Since the home ministers are RSS, they never take action against Bajrang Dal or other sang riff-raff for attacks on minorities. So please save it.

                        The failure of the India is the rise of such politicians who should have hanged for 1984, 1993 & 2002.
                        Last edited by lemontree; 16 Dec 13,, 05:43.

                        Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by n21 View Post
                          I think this is where we under-estimate Modi. VHP and RSS thought they would rule Gujarat after 2002. They now know who is the boss.

                          Have you noticed how the VHP chief never gives any speech in Gujrat. RSS and VHP in Gujarat are very anti-Modi. They tried their best to bring down Modi in 2012. Could not.

                          The same will happen if Modi comes to power in Delhi. He will have a iron grip over BJP and any funny characters who want to spoil the party. He knows how to use the cult.
                          Interesting relationship between these two, once close not any longer. 2007 appears to be the turning point.

                          Once Hindutva twins, Narendra Modi and PravinTogadia no longer conjoined | TOI | Feb 09 2013

                          The Togadia-Modi dynamic | BS | Aug 30 2013

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                            Again, I am not a Congress media fan follower like you guys lap up Modi's propaganda.
                            Since the home ministers are RSS, they never take action against Bajrang Dal or other sang riff-raff for attacks on minorities. So please save it.

                            The failure of the India is the rise of such politicians who should have hanged for 1984, 1993 & 2002.
                            One reason, why being born a Hindu, I say 'Fuck off' to Hindus. I got much to lose being a Hindu than otherwise. For e.g. my beef steak. Hinduism today teaches the matters of dark ages. For Hinduism to progress, we have to have a Hitler who fucks off RSS and BJP types, who infact preach us about how we should talk, walk and conduct ourselves.
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              One reason, why being born a Hindu, I say 'Fuck off' to Hindus. I got much to lose being a Hindu than otherwise. For e.g. my beef steak. Hinduism today teaches the matters of dark ages.
                              Funnily enough, I have found no impediments to eating beef steak in India or abroad whilst still remaining Hindu.

                              For Hinduism to progress, we have to have a Hitler who fucks off RSS and BJP types, who infact preach us about how we should talk, walk and conduct ourselves.
                              Uh, Hitler did exactly that. He went further actually, he preached who deserved to live and who didn't. So be careful what you wish for.

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                              • #60
                                Exactly.
                                The biggest danger for any democracy is that Fascism is always just a 'strong leader' away.

                                Which is why Modi scares me. He is simply too efficient draconian and ruthless.

                                If he can manage to get the same sort of stranglehold on New Delhi he has already on Gujarat, that's all she wrote for Indian Democracy.
                                For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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