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Thread: F-35 v F/A-18 Shornet-play ground style

  1. #76
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    So the next question is if US sixth gen fighters will be exportable. I have a hunch that the US may get into a development pattern where it alternates between Air Dominance and Strike fighters, but with only the latter being offered to allies.

  2. #77
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    The big problem is, Canada has lost her place in line for F-35. She is screwed if it decides it wants F-35's as she would not see a new F-35 until, what 2030?
    I may be wrong, but I don't see this a a deal breaker. There always seems to be the ability for the contractor and other buying air arms to 'swap' air-frames coming off the line when the need arises.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JA Boomer View Post
    I may be wrong, but I don't see this a a deal breaker. There always seems to be the ability for the contractor and other buying air arms to 'swap' air-frames coming off the line when the need arises.
    Yes but this means someone would have to be willing to delay their deliveries so that Canada could get theirs...

  4. #79
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Yes but this means someone would have to be willing to delay their deliveries so that Canada could get theirs...
    It does. My point is you see this happen regularly with other military production lines. And you'll have Lockheed doing everything it can to make sure it happens in order to lock in an extra order of F-35s. It's not ideal, but I don't think it would be a deal breaker.

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    Hello Gentlemen, a quick google showed me nothing that indicates that Canada has withdrawn from the F-35 program. From what I can tell, there has been no formal paperwork that would indicate that Canada has lost her place in the production schedule despite the rumblings from Ottawa and elsewhere. In fact, Canada has continued to pay into the F-35 program even after all these SUPERHORNET fiasco,

  6. #81
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Hello Gentlemen, a quick google showed me nothing that indicates that Canada has withdrawn from the F-35 program. From what I can tell, there has been no formal paperwork that would indicate that Canada has lost her place in the production schedule despite the rumblings from Ottawa and elsewhere. In fact, Canada has continued to pay into the F-35 program even after all these SUPERHORNET fiasco,
    I can not find a source, and I am too lazy to dig through my Combat Aircraft magazine archive to find the article, but I know at one point Canada had spots reserved in LRIP lots, and we would have likely received our first aircraft in 2017. So I would suggest that our non-commitment to the F-35 has in fact, lost us some production slots. But...

    1) Like I said I do not see this as an issue, as there always seems to be flexibility in the slots and the willingness for the manufacturer and other users to 'make room'.

    2) Like OOE mentioned, our continued participation in the program may well give us certain priorities in aircraft delivery should we in fact decide to shit instead of getting off the pot.

    3) It's probably a good thing, as the bugs continue to be ironed out of the F-35A, earlier block jets will no doubt require updates to bring them up to the current production standard.

  7. #82
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Does Canada have any pilots in the training pipeline at Luke or Eglin?
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  8. #83
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Does Canada have any pilots in the training pipeline at Luke or Eglin?
    I can confidently say no.

  9. #84
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Finally the ridiculousness of this all is getting some traction: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opi...beandmail.com&

  10. #85
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Boeing-Canada Super Hornet dispute goes global

    http://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/...e-goes-global/

    "In retaliation for Boeing’s actions, Canada put on hold its purchase of 18 Super Hornet fighter jets. That $5.23 billion acquisition, which is seen as a stopgap until a future fleet of fighter jets can be bought, was approved by the State Department on Sept. 12 but there are now doubts among Canadian government officials whether it will ever proceed."

    "Canadian defense officials have privately warned that Boeing’s actions could harm its future attempts to sell Canada refueling aircraft and additional fighter jets.
    Boeing, however, says it has no intention in backing down. Company representatives argue that the Bombardier issue should not be linked to a fighter jet purchase or any other defense acquisitions."

    "Canada is now examining whether to buy used F-18s from Australia. Meanwhile, Lockheed Martin says it can fill the fighter jet order with F-35s. Jack Crisler, vice president of F-35 business development, said the offer of the F-35 has been made to the Canadian government. Crisler said the delivery of those aircraft would match the proposed delivery timetable the Canadian government had planned for the Super Hornets."
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 18 Sep 17, at 18:45.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    "Canada is now examining whether to buy used F-18s from Australia.
    ... are they even flyable without spending a lot of money on them?

  12. #87
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    "Meanwhile, Lockheed Martin says it can fill the fighter jet order with F-35s. Jack Crisler, vice president of F-35 business development, said the offer of the F-35 has been made to the Canadian government. Crisler said the delivery of those aircraft would match the proposed delivery timetable the Canadian government had planned for the Super Hornets."
    Which should put to bed the issue of F-35 delivery.

  13. #88
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    ... are they even flyable without spending a lot of money on them?
    I believe the Aussie classic Hornets are younger than the Canadian inventory if not exactly spring chickens, but unlike the proposed Boeing deal for the current crop of RCAF pilots could jump right in additional classic Hornets and fly.

    If there really is a need for a small stopgap purchase until a full replacement can be decided upon, picking up 2nd hand Aussie Hornets makes more sense than buying new Supers.
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 18 Sep 17, at 23:06.

  14. #89
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I believe the Aussie classic Hornets are younger than the Canadian inventory if not exactly spring chickens, but unlike the proposed Boeing deal for the current crop of RCAF pilots could jump right in additional classic Hornets and fly.

    If there really is a need for a small stopgap purchase until a full replacement can be decided upon, picking up 2nd hand Aussie Hornets makes more sense than buying new Supers.
    Some of the RAAF Hornets have been through the center barrel replacement as well. Really though, there's no need for an interim fleet at all.

  15. #90
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...from-australia

    The Liberal government had wanted to buy 18 Super Hornet fighter jets but that plan was derailed when Boeing filed a trade complaint against Bombardier

    Canada has taken the first official step to purchasing used fighter jets from Australia as its dispute with Boeing continues unresolved.

    The Canadian government has now submitted a formal expression of interest to Australia to acquire the aircraft, Public Services and Procurement Canada confirmed.

    Canada began discussions in late August with the Australian government to assess the potential purchase of used F/A-18 fighter aircraft from that country.

    “On Sept. 29, 2017, Canada submitted an expression of interest, formally marking Canada’s interest in the Australian equipment,” Public Services and Procurement Canada announced in a new statement. “Canada expects to receive a response by the end of this year that will provide details regarding the availability and cost of the aircraft and associated parts that Canada is considering.”

    The Australian jets are being considered as interim fighters. They would supplement Canada’s existing CF-18 fleet until a new aircraft could be acquired.

    The move to try to acquire fighter jets from Australia coincides with the U.S. government’s decision, based on a Boeing complaint, to hit Bombardier with almost 300 per cent duties on its CSeries civilian passenger jet.

    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is expected to bring up the Boeing complaint and duties with U.S. President Donald Trump on Wednesday.
    The Liberal government had wanted to buy 18 Super Hornet fighter jets but that plan was derailed when the jet’s manufacturer, Boeing, filed the trade complaint in April against Bombardier of Quebec over its civilian passenger jets.

    Boeing complained to the U.S. government that Bombardier was receiving subsidies, which in turn allowed it to sell its C-Series civilian passenger aircraft at below-market prices.

    The U.S. ruled in favour of the American aerospace giant and as a result, Bombardier will face duties of almost 300 per cent.

    That move by Boeing, however, scuttled the Super Hornet deal and prompted Canada to look elsewhere for jets.

    Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan recently said that Canada has looked at surplus fighter jets from Kuwait but those are not available at this time. He acknowledged Canada is now focused on the Australian jets.

    “We are going to be moving ahead with filling that capability gap,” Sajjan noted. “We are pursuing other options.”

    The Liberals have said they will eventually buy 88 new jets to replace the CF-18s.

    Trudeau has said Boeing can forget about selling fighter jets to Canada as long as it tries to undercut thousands of Canadian jobs with its ongoing trade complaint against a Quebec aerospace firm.

    “We won’t do business with a company that is busy trying to sue us and put our aerospace workers out of business,” Trudeau said.

    Boeing’s complaint has also drawn the ire of the government in the United Kingdom.

    Parts of the C-Series are built in Northern Ireland.

    The U.K.’s prime minister, Theresa May, has raised the issue with Trump. She has also warned that Boeing’s actions are jeopardizing future defence contracts with the U.K.

    Marc Allen, Boeing’s president of international business, has said the company wanted to ensure a level playing field in the aerospace industry. He said Boeing believes that global trade only works if everyone plays by the same rules. That wasn’t the case for Bombardier, he added.

    Boeing on Tuesday launched an advertising campaign to raise awareness of the company’s presence and annual impact on the nation’s economy.

    Boeing’s critics point out it receives billions of dollars of subsidies from the U.S. government. Boeing is trying to undercut Bombardier, a potential competitor, Canadian government and industry officials say.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

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